The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 07:09

Tuxie400 · 12/07/2019 11:48 am

Wow! I thought this was easily the best episode of the season so far, and it strengthened all my previous theories. Red is still very much Katarina in my mind, and Fakerina was a Soviet operative who had a close relationship with Ilya but was roped into playing Katarina for a short time. Fakerina's declaration of mother at the end was not a confirmation to me. It was the only card Fakerina had left to play - the only one to get her free of the barrel of Liz's gun.

I do agree the episode was written ambiguously to keep all the theories alive. Bu I think it served a purpose, the most important being to show us what part of Dom's Rassvet story was true. And most of it was - just not the end. To me, this episode featured the smartest Liz so far this season. (That's not saying much, considering how dumb the writers have made her look in all the other Season 7 episodes.) She finds the identity of guys in the park, successfuly works around Red, and gets to "Katarina" before Red does. Sure she should have gotten backup and gotten her child out of there before confronting the nanny, but at least she puts on her silencer so the shooting won't wake Agnes. ... Right?

I loved the dinner in the dark and Red saving the owl. Liz's fabulous dress and hairstyle, and the references to art were all callbacks to the auction episode from Season 2. At least the shippers got that, although their hearts must have fallen when Red thought Liz was expecting a call from a new man and seemed to encourage the relationship. My favorite line in that scene was, "Our eyes deceive us with visual cues and predisposed expectations."

peaking of callbacks, this new memory recall was so similar to the Braxton recall with Liz. Ilya sees his present self and the younger self in the recall, and this doctor uses several of the lines Dr. Orchard used with and about LIz. The new twist seemed to be Fakerina entering Ilya's recall space. But I wonder if that's what Red did (without being hooked up to machines) at the end of Liz's recall. Maybe she saw him there because she was hearing his voice in his recall space. Just a thought.

I definitely think Braxton's besting Red in Belgrade was a different event from Dom trying to fake Katarina's death there.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/07/2019 11:55 am)

Tuxie400 · 12/07/2019 11:49 am

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
In fairness, things I liked:

1. The Interrogator - pathologically firm but fair
2. Agent Park - consistently paranoid & annoyed
3. Brent Cullen - superb near-death acting
4. Spader - the usual brilliance

BBB - I liked all these things too!

Tatiana · 12/07/2019 12:42 pm

Tuxie - BRAVA! Indeed, this was a most welcome episode, more in keeping with the real flavor of TBL. I agree, we got a saavier Liz and I LOVED that dress. As for the Redarina theory, the scene with the chef speaking of non-binary, etc. and "Our eyes deceive us with visual cues and predisposed expectations." to me spoke to the whole theme of The Blacklist - nothing is as it seems, everything about me is a lie, identity, gender-neutral, etc. from the very first episode, The Pilot.

So to me this was by far the best episode of the season. I believe Bokenkamp wrote the script. Plus, I hear next week is the conclusion to this week and ends with a crescendo. Of course, it's the season finale so that's to be expected.

Keep in mind folks, after next week we will have a 2-3 month break until TBL returns in March.

Tuxie400 wrote:
Wow! I thought this was easily the best episode of the season so far, and it strengthened all my previous theories. Red is still very much Katarina in my mind, and Fakerina was a Soviet operative who had a close relationship with Ilya but was roped into playing Katarina for a short time. Fakerina's declaration of mother at the end was not a confirmation to me. It was the only card Fakerina had left to play - the only one to get her free of the barrel of Liz's gun.

I do agree the episode was written ambiguously to keep all the theories alive. Bu I think it served a purpose, the most important being to show us what part of Dom's Rassvet story was true. And most of it was - just not the end. To me, this episode featured the smartest Liz so far this season. (That's not saying much, considering how dumb the writers have made her look in all the other Season 7 episodes.) She finds the identity of guys in the park, successfuly works around Red, and gets to "Katarina" before Red does. Sure she should have gotten backup and gotten her child out of there before confronting the nanny, but at least she puts on her silencer so the shooting won't wake Agnes. ... Right?

I loved the dinner in the dark and Red saving the owl. Liz's fabulous dress and hairstyle, and the references to art were all callbacks to the auction episode from Season 2. At least the shippers got that, although their hearts must have fallen when Red thought Liz was expecting a call from a new man and seemed to encourage the relationship. My favorite line in that scene was, "Our eyes deceive us with visual cues and predisposed expectations."

peaking of callbacks, this new memory recall was so similar to the Braxton recall with Liz. Ilya sees his present self and the younger self in the recall, and this doctor uses several of the lines Dr. Orchard used with and about LIz. The new twist seemed to be Fakerina entering Ilya's recall space. But I wonder if that's what Red did (without being hooked up to machines) at the end of Liz's recall. Maybe she saw him there because she was hearing his voice in his recall space. Just a thought.

I definitely think Braxton's besting Red in Belgrade was a different event from Dom trying to fake Katarina's death there.

Honey West · 12/07/2019 3:11 pm

I did like the episode. I agree, Tuxie400, the interrogation was a lot like Braxton.

Script was Sean Hennen and Taylor Martin. Hennen also wrote "Rassvet".

I'm still not so sure about Liz deciding to confront Katarina alone, though. I suspect that maybe she figures it's the last real way she's going to be able to get any answers about Red, if she still wants them. She's also already seen that when Red gets there first, the answers usually die with the person. But then, it seems that Katarina is looking for the same answers that Liz has been looking for. She seems to be having some memory lapses herself, but just when you think maybe she really doesn't know (because she wasn't there, isn't really Katarina, etc.), she goes and says something that puts her in the time and place.

I need to look again, but did those KGB/Cabal/whatever men resemble Liz's Fire Night memory men?

Need to rewatch, maybe later today.

Trelliswires · 12/07/2019 10:17 pm

Katarina may still be the original Katarina - but memory compromised by brain injury from her escapades.

The car bomb blast in Belgrade was a major explosion, she was near the car, and she may have sustained cranial trauma from flying debris/shrapnel. Or, she could have sustained blast-induced traumatic brain injury (bTBI) from the blast wave only. Just being in close proximity to an explosion can rattle the brain sufficiently to result in severe concussion and even permanent retrograde amnesia. This could be the etiology for memory loss and her fear of not knowing what of her past is making her the target of the Townsend Directive.

Honey West · 12/08/2019 1:39 am

Very good, Trelliswires. That makes sense. I think it also applies to Red. I’ve often thought that he must be just a little bit scrambled from all of the things that have happened to him over the years, even if only some of the stories are true.

Eastcoast · 12/08/2019 2:14 am

Trelliswires, I was thinking that blast had to have something to do with it.
HW, scrambled to say the least! 😆

I am now thinking about about a few things.
1, What Dembe said to Red, that he didn't know if Liz would ever be ready to know what he did to her, when they were at the tree to see of the suitcase was still there.

2, Ilya said to Dom, "She is dead".

Soooooo, my other thought is what did they do to her memory before the blast?
There has been too much memory manipulation in this show to ignore that it's a possibility.

I've been working on the dialog tonight from this episode. I should be able to post it sometime tomorrow.

😴😴😴

KathyN · 12/08/2019 3:24 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Wow! I thought this was easily the best episode of the season so far, and it strengthened all my previous theories. Red is still very much Katarina in my mind, and Fakerina was a Soviet operative who had a close relationship with Ilya but was roped into playing Katarina for a short time. Fakerina's declaration of mother at the end was not a confirmation to me. It was the only card Fakerina had left to play - the only one to get her free of the barrel of Liz's gun.

Tuxie, I agree the episode strengthened all those theories, and I think that is what happened too. But the episode also strengthened the theories of those who believe Katarina is the real Katarina. That's my beef with it. Eventually they had to show us that Tom was alive, that Kate was alive (from when Red thought he killed her), that Kirk wasn't really Liz's father. And eventually they'll tell us one way or another who this woman is. But this dragging it out instead of settling it makes me think we may go an entire season, like we did with the bones, before we get an answer. (and the bones answer may not even be the one we all believe so that may be more than one season to resolve).

Eastcoast, I've been working on some of the dialogue too. I left out the flashbacks of the conversations with Lotte and the young Ilya that were hard to hear, but this is what I have so far. There could be mistakes so I'm looking forward to what you post:

Skovic: Do you remember what happened that night?
Ilya: She made contact at the embassy. She was in trouble.She needed help.
Skovic: What trouble? Tell me about the trouble.You helped her, right?
Ilya: She was being hunted.By the KGB.The Cabal. The Americans. Her father helped get us out of Russia. But it wasn't enough. She needed to disappear. Needed a plan.
Skovic: Tell me about that plan.
Ilya: We devised a plan to steal the money used to frame Reddington and disappear. But the plan, it didn't work. Not like we thought.
Skovic: The plan. Who did it involve?
Ilya: It was myself, Katarina, Dr. Koehler.
Skovic: And the person under the knife the man who walked into the banks and impersonated Reddington tell me what you remember about him.
Skovic: He's guarding the memory.Even in this state, he knows there is a secret he should not reveal.
Katarina: Who was impersonating him, Ilya?

Skovic: Can you tell me where you are?
Ilya: In a cafe in Belgrade.
Skovic: What happened that night?
Katarina: Love. Please. I know you were here with Dom. I need you to tell me what happened.
Ilya: It wasn't my idea. I told him. We can't be meeting like this. It's too dangerous. Even now.
Dom: Listen to me. Your ruse with Reddington didn't work. All it managed to do was anger the people who want her dead.
Ilya: She is dead.
Dom: Nonsense!
Skovic: What did Dom want from you?
Ilya: He was desperate. He needed help.
Dom: Do you know they've assembled a directive? The Russian Vory, KGB, the Americans her enemies have pooled their resources and put a bounty on her head. They're calling it the Townsend Directive.
Ilya: Neville Townsend?
Dom: He's at the top of a very long list of people who want her dead.
Ilya: Are you worried they'll find you?
Dom: I'm worried they'll find Masha, try and leverage her.
Ilya: Look, Dom, I I can't help you.
Dom: You made a promise! To Katarina. You told her you would look after Masha if anything happened to her.
Ilya: Yes, but I can't call off Townsend. And he will not stop looking.
Dom: Sure, he will. He'll stop looking. And so will the rest of them if Katarina's dead.
Ilya: You want me to kill your daughter?
Dom: I want you to hear my plan.

Dom: She has to die. It's the only way to protect Masha. But to get this done, I'll need your help.She'll listen to you. You can get her.
Ilya: Dom. I can't. I can't do this.
Katarina: And yet you did. Early in the morning. Still dark. You'd called me. It was a simple assignment. I was to drive a couple of miles into the city. I was to meet Dominic at Vukov Station. Give him a package. I was to sneak out.
Skovic: So the target she was exactly where she was supposed to be.
Ilya: I watched you sneak out of the green door. But I could hardly see you. It was so dark.
Katarina: So you were there to what? To watch me die?
Ilya: Yes. I hadn't known you'd taken a new husband. Not that I was angry to find out, certainly not as angry as he seemed to be, charging out of that room.
Pyotr: Who's this?
Katarina: I had to bring him in. Pyotr was so suspicious.He knew what my old life had cost me. But I couldn't let you down. By the time Pyotr woke up, I planned to be back in bed as if nothing happened. But I was wrong. He knew if I was slipping out at 4:00 a.m. that I was back in the game. He kept screaming, "You were done! You were out!" I insisted it was my last job. An old friend had asked me for a favor. A desperate friend, someone who I trusted, someone I could never turn down. But you weren't really my friend. Were you?
Ilya: I'm so sorry. I never wanted to hurt you. But we we didn't think we had a choice.
Katarina: "We."
Ilya: That's right.
Katarina: You weren't alone. The others. They were all there. Even Dom was there.
Ilya: He leaked that his daughter, that you, were staying at the inn and that you carried sensitive intel.This might be the last chance to catch the infamous Russian traitor Katarina Rostova.
Katarina: He wanted to make a spectacle of my death. And to think, you facilitated it. You watched.
Ilya: I know. I'm sorry.
Katarina: Pyotr insisted he accompany me. He didn't want me out of his sight. He knew Belgrade was too dangerous. He said he'd stay in the car. I told him he was crazy to come. He wasn't even wearing shoes. Just those stupid hotel slippers. He died. I loved him. And he died right before my eyes.Because of you!
Ilya: The KGB were going to kill you right then and there. But then everything went wrong.

Dom: I gave you instructions.
Ilya: How could I have not known - about her husband? - She was to come alone.
Dom: One simple job deliver the dossier.
Ilya: I've never even heard of him.
Dom: And now he's dead and she's alive. And there are witnesses. It's a mess! The world was supposed to see Katarina Rostova die, and instead all we've done is confirm that she's very much alive. Townsend.He'll never stop. And instead of protecting my granddaughter, we've put a target on her back.
Ilya: Oh, stop using the child as an excuse! This was about you, Dom.
Dom: This was about Masha!
Ilya: I should tell him.
Dom: We're not telling him anything.
Ilya: Oh. I know how you feel, but Reddington deserves to know what we've done.
Katarina: Why? Why does Reddington deserve to know anything?
Ilya: Because he's a part of this.
Katarina: You're protecting him.
Ilya: I made a promise.
Katarina: But you cared about me.
Ilya: Yes, and I do, but
Katarina: I had everything taken from me that night. I can't show my face, use my name.
Ilya: I'm so sorry.
Katarina: I've been hunted like an animal!
Skovic: We need to stop.
Katarina: And Reddington? Whoever he is, he's still out there! The benefactor to all of this. Why? You're protecting him, but people are trying to kill me. They're hunting me! Answer me! Why?!
Skovic: We need to stop! Get back! We need to keep his airway clear.

Last edited by KathyN (12/08/2019 3:31 am)

Honey West · 12/08/2019 3:48 pm

Thanks for posting the dialogue, KathyN.

It would appear that Katarina didn't know the man who was recruited to portray Reddington to drain the bank accounts. Or, if she knows him, she didn't know he was doing the impersonating. So it would probably be someone she wouldn't miss if he disappeared into the Reddington identity. We assumed from Rassvet that it was Ilya himself, but the dialogue indicates it was someone else. Dom's story to Liz implied that it was Ilya.

There is a fellow on Twitter who is an editor for the show and edited the memory dialogue for this episode. he has said that he was careful to cut the scenes so that we could see that Ilya, although resisting, was telling truths. There was no effort on his part to deceive and the nuggets from Rassvet that were true were being confirmed as such. So Ilya is still protecting the identity of the person who became Reddington in 1991. This is "our" Reddington. We still don't know who he really is or was. He keeps saying it's not even important, as whoever he was no longer exists and for all intents and purposes he IS Raymond Reddington and has been for quite some time. Liz actually seems to have accepted that fact, of course she thinks she's identified him as having been Ilya Koslov. Now she will find out that there really is an Ilya Koslov and he's not Reddington, so that will spin her back into "who is he and why is he in my life" mode. What will happen to Katarina? Will she be killed off at the end of the mid-season finale? Or will she be like Berlin and hang around for awhile longer or even just disappear again? She's an interesting character and I hope they don't just eliminate her. I guess, in reality, what happens depends on if the show has an 8th season or not.

Last edited by Honey West (12/08/2019 3:50 pm)

Eastcoast · 12/09/2019 1:50 am

HW, thanks for that. Good to know.

So, I did take a few more looks at all this. That guy did say a few things that I thought were odd. Not sure I trust him. Well, not sure we can trust any of them? Lol.

In the beginning, KR says she's marked and she knows it.

To be honest, the fact that they planned on Stealing 40 million dollars would have been enough to mark anyone.

The KGB knew that she was the one who knew about this money and where it was.
I am wondering if whoever Red was double crossed them, but if it's our Red, it would be odd since he and Ilya are close. I also had the impression Ilya thought they were both dead. I'm wondering why he said that.

That guy asked him about her contacting him that night? It was at least a few weeks before she did that.

The other thing is Dom saying he had promised to look after Liz if anything happened to Kr, as if something had happened to her already.
I'm thinking she moved away and went on with her life.
Just left everyone else to see that Liz was ok. Maybe she had her own memory tampered with so she wouldn't be able to disclose anything?

I'm tired, rambling....

😴😴

Big Badd Bazzer · 12/09/2019 10:01 am

One minor thing that kinda amazed me - but was obviously written into the script for a purpose was when Red stated he didn't have time to go thru Jellybean (Glen) and his own personal brand of malarkey. The situation demanded immediate action. That was excellent continuity as Glen had put up a wall of malarkey vs. Red in the previous episode. Well done, writers!

Big Badd Bazzer · 12/09/2019 10:03 am

I now firmly believe the writers have babble-gabbed & gone down numerous meaningless rabbit holes.

The characters are totally confused by both the plot and their purpose in the plot.

So why shouldn't the audience have the same feelings of frustration?

Just a theory - in the form of a question.

Honey West · 12/09/2019 2:38 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
HW, thanks for that. Good to know.

So, I did take a few more looks at all this. That guy did say a few things that I thought were odd. Not sure I trust him. Well, not sure we can trust any of them? Lol.

In the beginning, KR says she's marked and she knows it.

To be honest, the fact that they planned on Stealing 40 million dollars would have been enough to mark anyone.

The KGB knew that she was the one who knew about this money and where it was.
I am wondering if whoever Red was double crossed them, but if it's our Red, it would be odd since he and Ilya are close. I also had the impression Ilya thought they were both dead. I'm wondering why he said that.

That guy asked him about her contacting him that night? It was at least a few weeks before she did that.

The other thing is Dom saying he had promised to look after Liz if anything happened to Kr, as if something had happened to her already.
I'm thinking she moved away and went on with her life.
Just left everyone else to see that Liz was ok. Maybe she had her own memory tampered with so she wouldn't be able to disclose anything?

I'm tired, rambling....

😴😴

Good job on the dialogue in the other thread. I noted that, too, about Ilya saying "I thought they were dead". Did he mean KR and RR? I guess, at that point in time, he figured they were both dead. It's ambiguous enough to not refer to any specific persons or times.

I have wondered if her questions also point to her own memory being tampered with so she would not be able to provide answers if questioned. The fact that Ilya is able to resist some of the questions makes me think he has been "programmed" somehow, too. Either that or he is superman as far as resistance to interrogation.

I also reviewed the Timeline that we have, and we still don't know a date for Belgrade. Or when Velov saw Katarina in Prague, only that it was after Cape May.

On an unrelated note, if we go by the birthdates we've been given for Reddington and Koslov, they are only 8 months apart. Not sure that means anything in the Blacklist Universe, but I put it out there.

RedIsMyCoPilot · 12/10/2019 8:57 pm

Apologies if anyone's mentioned this already, but Katerina Rostova's number is...

3!

So, who's 2 and especially 1?!

Tuxie400 · 12/11/2019 10:37 am

Trelliswires - You make a good point about this Katarina''s memories possibly being affected by the explosion. But I find it odd her memory is so selective. She knows nothing at all about time period Rassvet covered, yet she has very detailed memories of Belgrade. They show us that by her mentioning her husband wearing his hotel slippers. She's only been sedated - not given any of the psychotropic drugs - so she's not undergoing memory regression. That's why I think she's a different person.

Tuxie400 · 12/11/2019 10:40 am

RedIsMyCopilot - We started discussing the number for Katarina Rostova on the spoiler thread for 7.10. If you don't mind looking at spoilers, you can check there.

Tuxie400 · 12/11/2019 10:45 am

Eastcoast - Of course, I think when Ilya says, "She is dead" he means dead to the world in that persona because she was then Reddington - the Reddington he and Dom are discussing later about telling. I could be totally wrong, but I think it works.

Tuxie400 · 12/11/2019 10:58 am

Honey West - Liz's mistake of going alone is a plot device, and from the preview it looks like there will be some dire consequences that set up the rest of the season. I think one of the themes of this episode was blunders made in saving children - Liz with Agnes and Dom with Masha. It does a disservice to Liz's character, as have all other episodes this season. But I think from a writing standpoint it's ultimately to have her understand choices that were made in the past.

I saw someone else on Reddit explain Liz's behavior this way:
She thinks the woman is her mom and if she was going to harm her or Agnes she has had multiple chances. It’s more she wants answers then to turn her in and she doesn’t want Red there to dictate what answers she gets.

Also, Red told her she had nothing to fear from her mother. That's why she brought Agnes home in the first place.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/11/2019 11:47 am)

Tuxie400 · 12/11/2019 11:21 am

I hope Ilya won't die next week. But his purpose in the plot is likely done, and he will. I expect Fakerina to disappear by the end of the finale and to continue being a problem on into the second half of the season. She likely won't be confirmed as a fake until the end of this season. That answer will be drawn out like the bones in Season 55. She may take Agnes and Liz, or just Agnes with her. I know the Agnes kidnapping has been done before. But this show likes its parallels too much not to do it.

Ilya was given his own Hobson's Choice in deciding between Fakerina and Masha in this episode. I wonder how Dom convinced him to go through will killing his possible ex-wife. It's too bad we didn't get to hear the details of Dom's plan, or what credible evidence Dom gave him that Masha was in imminent danger from the Townsend Directive.

I'm looking forward to finding out who Neville Townsend is and why he hates Katarina so much. Neville Townsend sounds like a British name. I wonder if he wasn't the British spy member of the Cabal. I think the two MI6 operatives we've met this season and last season are foreshadowing Townsend.

Big Badd Bazzer · 12/11/2019 4:29 pm

Plot Device Hint = Neville Townsend is somebody.