The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 6:22 - Robert Diaz

Tuxie400 · 5/18/2019 7:47 am

Honey West - Yes, yet another syringe and hypodermic needle for the medical imagery! That's still the most used medical tool in the series.

"So if that really is Katarina and the stranger from the past is really Ilya, then who the heck is Red?" That's exactly what I was thinking and why I very briefly thought maybe he was the real Reddington. Then I thought maybe Red did have his memory wiped and doesn't know who he really is. Then my brain thought, I've had enough of these mental gymnastics. LOL

Last edited by Tuxie400 (5/18/2019 7:47 am)

Cate · 5/18/2019 8:16 am

Lots to unpack over the summer with this episode -- it's a good thing that it starts back in the fall instead of January.

One item among many for me to ponder: The scene with Red and Ressler perplexed me, because Ressler told Red that he didn't know how the Russian agents found out he was interested in Katarina Rostova.

The Russian agent who followed him told Ressler outright that they were alerted when he ran a search for the prints of Katarina Rostova's father. Ress responded "So, you're looking for him too?" Meanwhile, Liz (publicly known as KR's daughter) is oblivious, and is going to take Agnes to meet Dom. If Red had known that they were looking for DOM so assiduously, I'm sure he would have extracted him to someplace safe.

I was pleased to see Dom/Brian Dennehy live to see another season, but now I think the stage has been set for his demise (likely at mid-season break).

IowaWatcher · 5/18/2019 12:18 pm

At some point this summer, we'll probably want to discuss what the "Townsend Directive" is that Dembe first told Red about. I posted that dialog in the history section.

TheYeti · 5/18/2019 1:03 pm

One of my favourite season finales yet, and a closer to what I believe to be the greatest season so far. After the Cabal plot in season 3, the show seemed to have lost its strength, but season 6 was consistently above average. Even the few weaker episodes (IMO General Shiro and the Third Estate) were not bad at all. It had some of the most interesting blacklisters yet (I especially liked Robert Vesco and Guillermo Rizal), some of the greatest continuing plot lines and overall more action than other seasons.

This finale had some interesting parallels with other season finales:
- The task force was framed for the assassination attempt, while Liz was framed for Connolly's murder in season 2.
- In season 3, Liz was kidnapped by her alleged father. Now Red is kidnapped by her mother.
- Ressler tried to prevent a murder by a sniper just as he did in the season 3 finale.
- A presidential advisor was killed. The same happened in season 4.

I was a bit disappointed that Diaz seems to have nothing to do with the Cabal, but other than that this was a great episode. Also, whoever finds actors for this show does an amazing job. Laila Robins really looks like an older Katarina Rostova and Gabriel Mann was perfect as a younger Red. Not only that, but Brett Cullen (the stranger) is perfect as an older version of him too. So many questions to think about before the next season.

BTW, if anyone is looking for a show to watch in the meantime: I'm currently watching The Americans, a show about Russian spies who pose as an American family during the Cold War. It also stars some blacklist actors, including Michael Aronov (Smokey).

Tuxie400 · 5/18/2019 2:09 pm

Yeti - Although I really loved most of Season 6, for me this was the weakest season finale of the series. The plot against America was just a ridiculous coverup. Even with that complaint, the episode was a lot of fun.

The Americans is definitely good watching, although I tired of it in later seasons.

IowaWatcher · 5/18/2019 5:25 pm

The Americans is on my list, as well! Season 8 of Game of Thrones is next, though. I'm hearing it's a truly horrible season, but I want to see it for myself.

Honey West · 5/18/2019 7:13 pm

I dunno, I still think the Cabal is involved in this somehow. I don't buy that Diaz was just planning to have himself offed because of a guilty conscience. And there was that look that McMahon gave him just before that all happened.

Honey West · 5/18/2019 9:55 pm

Didn’t Red also lose his hat after he was shot at the end of Vanessa Cruz?

Big Badd Bazzer · 5/18/2019 10:39 pm

Honey West wrote:
Didn’t Red also lose his hat after he was shot at the end of Vanessa Cruz?

I honestly thought Katarina (or Fake Katarina) was going to put Red's hat on - right after she picked it up to close the episode. Now wouldn't that have set off a chain reaction of maniacal thinkin' ???

IowaWatcher · 5/19/2019 12:18 am

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
Honey West wrote:
Didn’t Red also lose his hat after he was shot at the end of Vanessa Cruz?
I honestly thought Katarina (or Fake Katarina) was going to put Red's hat on - right after she picked it up to close the episode. Now wouldn't that have set off a chain reaction of maniacal thinkin' ???

She may have, but it's on the blooper reel!

Honey West · 5/19/2019 1:38 am

IowaWatcher wrote:
Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
Honey West wrote:
Didn’t Red also lose his hat after he was shot at the end of Vanessa Cruz?
I honestly thought Katarina (or Fake Katarina) was going to put Red's hat on - right after she picked it up to close the episode. Now wouldn't that have set off a chain reaction of maniacal thinkin' ???

She may have, but it's on the blooper reel!

Very funny, Iowa Watcher!
I love it!

Tuxie400 · 5/19/2019 6:52 am

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
Honey West wrote:
Didn’t Red also lose his hat after he was shot at the end of Vanessa Cruz?
I honestly thought Katarina (or Fake Katarina) was going to put Red's hat on - right after she picked it up to close the episode. Now wouldn't that have set off a chain reaction of maniacal thinkin' ???

BBB - I thought that gesture of picking up the hat might have indicated Katarina no longer needed Red to be Raymond.

Honey West - I don't think Red was wearing his hat when he got shot in the Cruz episode. He lost his hat in Adrian Shaw Part 2, and Liz found it and took it home.

Tuxie400 · 5/19/2019 6:56 am

Iowa Watcher - The first four episodes of Game of Thrones Season 8 were excellent. I think most people were disappointed by Episode 5. But I'm hoping this very last episode tongiht will be great. The ultimate ending will be bittersweet, much like I think the ending of BL will be.

IowaWatcher · 5/19/2019 10:25 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Iowa Watcher - The first four episodes of Game of Thrones Season 8 were excellent. I think most people were disappointed by Episode 5. But I'm hoping this very last episode tongiht will be great. The ultimate ending will be bittersweet, much like I think the ending of BL will be.

I hope so! I'm not expecting a lot. I'll treat it like I have BL this season: a little wine and just roll along with wherever the showrunners take us. There just isn't the good writing that was the hallmark of shows like Twilight Zone and other hits in the 1960s. I've enjoyed BL because there is an above average amount of good writing but even that isn't consistent and the continuity errors can be quite distressing at times.

Maybe today's writers and producers are more distracted? Running on less sleep so they make more mistakes? It doesn't matter as much for something like The Big Bang Theory (which had a decent series finale!) but complicated shows like the Blacklist and really complicated shows like GoT require a high degree of focus, in my opinion.

Big Badd Bazzer · 5/19/2019 11:16 am

IowaWatcher wrote:
Tuxie400 wrote:
Iowa Watcher - The first four episodes of Game of Thrones Season 8 were excellent. I think most people were disappointed by Episode 5. But I'm hoping this very last episode tongiht will be great. The ultimate ending will be bittersweet, much like I think the ending of BL will be.
I hope so! I'm not expecting a lot. I'll treat it like I have BL this season: a little wine and just roll along with wherever the showrunners take us. There just isn't the good writing that was the hallmark of shows like Twilight Zone and other hits in the 1960s. I've enjoyed BL because there is an above average amount of good writing but even that isn't consistent and the continuity errors can be quite distressing at times.

Maybe today's writers and producers are more distracted? Running on less sleep so they make more mistakes? It doesn't matter as much for something like The Big Bang Theory (which had a decent series finale!) but complicated shows like the Blacklist and really complicated shows like GoT require a high degree of focus, in my opinion.

While great writing is not quite a lost art - its extremely difficult to produce on a routine, consistent basis. Far too many shows taking up the best of a far too inconsistent writer's pool. The great writers are too often tasked with other responsibilities like direction and overall production.

However, the biggest problem MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE WRITING - ITS CONTINUITY.

Too often TBL's canon and continuity have been disrupted by erratic writing that pays little to no heed to the central storylines - and hardly pay the toll for diverted or side storylines that often develop as episodes go by.

One area they've been able to keep the writing quality high is the central character, Reddington. However, having an acting monster like James Spader delivering the mail is the easy answer. Spader is an absolute treasure in delivering long, hepped up and syllable-rich dialog in such an interesting and captivating manner.
The writing for Dembe is also superb - but in his case its the brevity of wit and words that coagulate in the making of a great secondary character.

Wish the writing was as consistent, crisp and fascinating for the other characters. FWIW here's how I'd rate the writing for other recurring and co-star characters:

Glen - A-
Smokey - B+
Ressler - C+
Liz          - B
Harold     - B+
Aram       - A-
Samar     - C+
Dom        - B
Katarina - C-
Mr. Kaplan - A
Tom Keen - A+
Pannabaker - B+

Missed a few but don't want to type the dictionary today!!!

IowaWatcher · 5/19/2019 5:43 pm

Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
However, the biggest problem MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE WRITING - ITS CONTINUITY.

I think that's a really good point, and I liked your writing grades for the characters, although I'd give Liz a range: C to A-, depending on the episode.

I know it's hard to churn out scripts and there's a real dearth of decent writers, but I also think there's a lack of overall "quality control" sometimes, especially when there are multiple problems with continuity, production, and bad casting on a series. TBL does a much better job than most in good casting, and although I complain about the loud music where I can't hear the dialog, I note that it's a problem with other shows on other networks, as well.

I still think there should be a mechanism where fans can submit scripts and story ideas without running afoul of the writer's union. Yeah, I know, get real.

Big Badd Bazzer · 5/19/2019 7:08 pm

IowaWatcher wrote:
Big Badd Bazzer wrote:
However, the biggest problem MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE WRITING - ITS CONTINUITY.
I think that's a really good point, and I liked your writing grades for the characters, although I'd give Liz a range: C to A-, depending on the episode.

I know it's hard to churn out scripts and there's a real dearth of decent writers, but I also think there's a lack of overall "quality control" sometimes, especially when there are multiple problems with continuity, production, and bad casting on a series. TBL does a much better job than most in good casting, and although I complain about the loud music where I can't hear the dialog, I note that it's a problem with other shows on other networks, as well.

I still think there should be a mechanism where fans can submit scripts and story ideas without running afoul of the writer's union. Yeah, I know, get real.

Well, the continuity has been lukewarm, even weak at times. Only reason its excusable is the quality of writers required to do such a major TV series is low in supply. Producers and directors are hog-tied to whatever writers they can round up from other shows, first-time writers, graduates from academia, etc. You can demand all you want but you can't get butter out of an ice cube.

Re: Megan Boone's grade. Mine was a cumulative grade - yours was perhaps episodic. Megan has grown the most as an actor over the last half dozen years. Some of her early performances weren't even in the C- range, perhaps D or even worse. But she's a TBL mainstay now - her work is far more detailed and nuanced. She can only get better. The writers really like her obviously, she pivotal to the series continuing on.

Eastcoast · 5/19/2019 7:41 pm

BBB said,
However, the biggest problem MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE WRITING - ITS CONTINUITY

I think most people will agree on this!

Digesting this episode a little at a time. There is much to break down. JB said we should believe it is KR at this time. Will have to wait and see.

I am going to write a few thoughts I have about her based on him saying that.

I wasn't really surprised that they used an older actress to play KR and didn't age up Lotte. I figured she would have had plastic surgery to make herself look different.
I also thought it was very interesting that her hair was blonde.
I was thinking about the time when he said Liz reminded him of her when she changed her
hair color. Someone had brought up a while back that we had not seen her with that color hair.
This would support him knowing her with blonde hair.

What I have seen about her on the show makes me feel she is a terrible person. When that tape played in court,
I felt like she was one of the worse people on that show. When I saw her with Ilya, I could not figure out what he saw in her? Then he said, 'a promise is a promise'. I felt for him. He was getting ready to be used too.

There was no mention of her being the least bit worried about her husband who had lost his wife and a girl he thought was his.

I might add, this episode did Not help my opinion of her. I was waiting for her to pick up a broom and fly off!

I think she is having Red taken somewhere and they will talk. I am hoping that they will talk about
whatever it is that Dom says he screwed up so bad, and Dembe spoke of that he did to her.

One of the things I did think was funny, and I giggled when I heard it, was Red saying omg when he saw her picture. I did not have the impression he was that thrilled.

The whole President thing was a let down to me.
My impression was they thought they had to kill the wife so she didn't tell
what he did so he wouldn't have to step down. That was saving their country to them.

It was cute to see the wiz kid say he didn't know what Red meant when he said, "Right as rain" and "Ready for Roger". It circled around from the time Red didn't know what he was talking about with the Star Wars.

I have some thoughts about the guy on the bench, but I will have to get to them another time.

Honey West · 5/20/2019 2:54 am

So, Red gets the info that she is in Paris, so he heads off to Paris to meet her on a dark street. She conveniently comes prepared with a wicked looking hypodermic needle, jabs him with it and then two guys show up in a van to haul him away. She picks up his hat and keeps walking.

Several takeaways. Where's Dembe? Handy needle. All I can figure is that she knew he was coming to meet with her. She probably set it up. They know they are being watched by someone. She seemed to make sure "they" saw the syringe. Also they saw that she didn’t get in the van, but kept going like nothing had happened except she had this nice new hat. So, what did they want someone to see? A fake greeting kiss so she could have him grabbed. What would KGB or whoever get from this? He said "Katarina" loud enough that someone could hear it, besides her. If someone looking for Katarina was watching they’d go ah ha, we've got her, and swoop in and pick her up. But she didn’t seem to care. Why? So she obviously knew he was coming to meet her, why in the open and to stage the abduction? Why would Red, the ever-so-careful, let that happen? He had to be in on it. I suspect he’s been taken to a secret location for the real meeting. Again, why go through all this trouble? Why not just meet at some super secret location? Wouldn’t whoever they staged this for just follow the van? Okay, I know, too early to even try to start figuring this out.
And is she really Katarina? And who the heck is he? I wonder if Raymond was his real first name all along? I'm starting to think the only truth he’s ever told Liz was when she said "you were there, the night of the fire", and he said "yes". Everything else is up for grabs.

Honey West · 5/20/2019 3:03 am

I’m with you, Eastcoast. I was ready for some Cabal shenanigans at the very least.

Curious to hear what you think of The Stranger. I lean towards him being Ilya. And they were either childhood friends or related somehow. The truck comment. I haven’t ruled out them all being part of some Cold War plotting, either.

But, whatever, I am looking forward to a season seven with, hopefully, lots of spy stuff. I love it when they go there!