If Red & Dom are being represented by proxies - what about Liz (Masha) & Ms. Rostova? Even Liz's "sister" could be a proxy! Or she could be the real Rostova?
WOW - far too much to consider without the actual algorithm! LOL

Sorry I am so late to the party.  I had RL going on.   

Enjoyed these episodes.  Starting with TBCK, seeing the girl on the podcast, I felt like she was a part of
what was going on. Did not know to what extent, but I felt like she had been a part of the newest murder or
 knew something because she wanted this guy out of jail. 


 Moving on to all the info we got about KR and the past.... 
 
I am disappointed that Ressler did not tell Liz, (as far as we know) that he was being watched by Russian men. 
I now feel like Dom's character is on borrowed time.  TBL is not into anyone being happy for too long.
He is in danger because of who he is too.  I imagine Liz will go out there with Agnes and they will be closing in on Dom.  Or, she will find him dead, or maybe Red will.  
I wouldn't be surprised if they burn the house down.  If not, maybe Liz will find the suitcases of stuff. 
I did enjoy seeing Dom's face light up and look happy for a change when Liz said he could see her daughter.  I am hoping that Red does not kill him. That would be so wrong. He looked pretty angry. I am thinking that if he thinks she will bring Agnes there, he might. 

 So Dom has kept the car because the last time he saw KR was in the mirror.  I suppose when he was pulling away and driving off he looked back. 

 KR was a very depressed woman, understandably fragile and had a suicidal tendency because of all the things that went wrong.

 I am not saying that Dom gave us the whole truth, but I feel like we did get some more of the back story. 
I did like it when he said he should be thanking him for putting it all behind him since he was the architect of this charade. 

 Liz has a big mouth. She should have not ran off and told Red what she knew. She was just so excited.
She does not realize that Ilya is most likely a very wanted man himself.  Looks like he worked for the Russian Embassy.


Reasons our Red could be this guy. I found the mannerisms like our Red. The walk was just like his. So was the voice. He was a very smart man.  His eyes when she said 40 million was priceless!  He was very devoted to Katarina.  Loyalty is a huge thing to this man!  He made a promise when he was 6 and he was still sticking to it.  A promise is a promise.  He really loved her.  She knew that. That is why she contacted him. She knew he would always take care of her daughter like she was his own if he said he would.
 
 He used a phrase used by our Red. "Can disappear with a trace".  It stood out to me as soon as soon as I heard it. 

This episode can explain a few things for me.
His relationship with Dom.
Why he told Kate he was not as unknown to her as she thought, and could have put Liz in Kate's arms as a baby.
Why he said to Liz that maybe he should have raised her himself.
That as much as it pained him, that her father was the only man her mother really loved. 
Part of me wonders if her thought if he became Red, would she love him that way.
I can see him telling Kirk who he was and saying something to prove it, and Kirk believing him.

 Gabriel is a great actor!

 Sam telling her to come get her!  Wow...

 Another thought...
 He could still be our Red if they thought Red died. 
Red could have been found by someone who helped him.  Who knows in this show?That could be why there is a K on the tree.  Red could have killed him and become himself again.  Also would explain why they show a man with a half burnt face in the beginning of every show.

 

Last edited by Eastcoast (4/28/2019 6:57 pm)

Eastcoast - The only Red mannerism I saw that Ilya did was the rolling up of his sleeves. I looked hard for similar facial expressions and head tilts, but I didn't see any.  I replayed the part where he walked into the bank five times, and the walk just didn't seem like Spader's to me. It was less determined and way too much pep in his step on the stairs - but he would have been a lot younger then. Ilya did say some phrases that sounded like what Spader has said in the past - the one you mentioned and at least two others that I can't exactly remember right now. Maybe I'll jot them down on my sixth flashback rewatch. LOL

I do think Gabriel Mann and Lotte Verbeek were terrific in their roles. Megan and Brian Dennehy were fabuous too  I really think Spader got out-acted by all four of them this time. 

At this point, the episode doesn't solve the issue of Red putting Liz in Kate's arms as a baby for me. There's no proof Ilyas knew Kate or Kirk at all.  Of course future episodes could change that. We have a whole other season for them to flesh out the story of Ilyas and fill in those blanks if he is really our Red.

I do not believe our Red is the original extra crispy.  Bokenkamp has just been too clear about that.  What I do find curious is that Ilyas seems like the one who was a pencil pusher at the embassy.

JB has never confirmed KR's death in past years.  What he said at the time he was asked was "she went into the water and was never seen again. I don't know what more I can say."  And he couldn't say more until the reveals they had for this season.  He's been very clear about the bones being Navy guy RR and that RR being Liz's father - no hedging at all.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/29/2019 5:10 pm)

Same here, Tuxie400. Then again, the DNA test on the bones showed them to be Raymond Reddington, and if JB is being clear about anything, then I think we have to have something to anchor all other plot points to, no pun intended. I think what sells that was the look on Tom's face when he read the report. He was like "of course!" as he realized that Red was an imposter all this time. I think Tom thought that when Liz found out she could move on and away from him.

I'm on board with Redarina at least for now. I can't explain it any other way.

I never thought Ilya turned into Red. I think Ilya is 1) a way to show Katarina's thought process 2) one of Katarinas personas 3) Dom.

Some have speculated multiple personalities and there are a lot of clues to support that.

There's also a parent/child relationship between Dom and Red and it's really symbiotic and abusive. Red keeps going back to Dom despite his abrasive, rejection.

Eastcoast - Ilya could have met Masha when she was a baby. But as of now we have no information like that. I tend to doubt Katarina would have mixed friends from childhood or her family members in the life she lead with Constantine. But maybe we'll learn more about that in the future.

In thinking about Ilya, I think there are several possibilities:

1.  He was a real person who helped Katarina after Cape May and became Reddington out of his love for her. Some of the facts we know fit with this. Others don't seem to, but might mesh when we know more info.

2.  Ilya was a real person who helped Katarina come up with the idea of taking real RR's identity. He looked enough like RR to pull off getting the money from the banks. But it was Katarina who actually had the surgeries and took on the identity.. Dom doesn't know this and thinks Red is really Ilya. Dom's beholden to Ilya for saving both his and Katarina's lives just as he told it.  I can't imagine Kat and Ilya would have had the money to pay for Koehler's surgeries until after they got at least part of the illicit RR bribe money.  Kat didn't have any funds after Cape May, and she used the Russian guy's credit card to pay for her room and that little computer.  Ilya supposedly liquidated all his assets to get funds for Kat's mom to disappear and start a new life.

3.  Ilya was someone Dom knew who worked at the Russian Embassy and disappeared at about the time Katarina disappeared. He has nothing to do with Katarina's back story but gives Liz an answer as to who Red was. I would think Dom, knowing Liz is an FBI agent, would expect her to verify Ilya's existence and try to find out more about him.

4, Ilya is a total fabrication designed to give Liz answers and make her back off trying to find out who Red really is. I think this one is unlikely because Dom knows Liz keeps looking for answers.

5. Ilya is Katarina's male persona  born out of gender diysphoria. This was Tatiana's idea, and considering all the research I did on multiple personality in the past, I can't rule this one out.  Ilya repeatedly talks about "we" like they had always been together. This one is far-out, and they are shown visually as separate people.  There was that kiss, but as Tatiana said elsewhere that could be Katarina fully embracing her male nature.

I don't think Ilya is Dom, unless in the way of #4 above.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/29/2019 9:21 pm)

Eastcoast - Well, K does stand for Koslov!  That may be why so many people are thinking the bones are Ilyas. To me, they've already answered the bones question.  Many fans never bought that explanation.

BBB - The double twist is good. But like I told Eastcoast above, I believe the bones question has been answered.

Interesting ideas!

So this is canon? The bag of bones was Raymond Reddington, and Liz is the daughter of the man whose bones were in the bag. Correct?

Here's where I'm lost: Present Imposter Red blew up the Takoma Park house because he wanted to forget what happened there (his family was killed, and it wasn't Naomi & Jennifer, nor Liz). Diane Fowler said that she knew what happened to his family, so she must've known that he was "Imposter Red." (And then he shoots her right after that dialog)

So if Present Imposter Red is Ilya, who was the family in the Takoma Park house? And this is my primary problem with "Rederina." KR was on the run. I doubt she would marry and have a family.

I don't believe that Illya is the present imposter based on the final scene.

It's possible that Ilya did go through with all the surgery, and then X (Raymond's twin, Raymond's brother, whomever) did away with him and then maybe did something fatal or nearly fatal to KR. Dom is annoyed because X killed IIya (or caused his death) when that wasn't necessary. X also did something (or caused something) to happen to KR that Dembe knows about that Liz needs to know (I know it could be a sex change, but I'm trying to come up with an alternative).

Of course, this is just my tired musings. There are certainly other viable theories.

Last edited by IowaWatcher (4/29/2019 7:02 pm)