Red had to have still been alive in March 1990 in order for Katarina to fake his finger prints for the $6 million Cypriot bank transactions.

Honey West - But if the Cabal knew Zachary was fake Red, why would Fitch or any of them believe fake Red had the fulcrum? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

Despite my timeline rant, I thought this episode was fabulous - the best one in a very long time. Ressler made a great star witness, and Liz was far more likeable than she's been most of the season. Red's narrative testimony both shocked and saddened me. I never thought Katarina was that much of a viillainess.  With all of the framing of RR that was going on, the fact the blacklister "framed" the evidence tape with the photograph of his lover made me laugh.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/24/2019 10:35 am)

Tuxie400 wrote:

Honey West - But if the Cabal knew Zachary was fake Red, why would Fitch or any of them believe fake Red had the fulcrum? That doesn't make sense to me.

 

 
Ya know, I’m still not sure that the Cabal ever knew he was a fake. I tend to think that maybe only Fitch knew, if he even knew. But I think it’s probable that Fitch knew something and that it had to do with his little agreement with Red. I’ve always gotten the idea that the agreement they spoke of was between them and not a broader agreement with the Cabal to leave him alone over the Fulcrum. As far as Zachary becoming Red. Well, if he didn’t, I’d bet money that he was a party to the whole thing. Didn’t they say only one body was found? Now they are saying it was this Zachary fellow. Of course that is all only if this fire at D's house was also The Fire. It might not be the same one. But I think it’s pointing in that direction, unless it’s another plot red herring.

The fingerprints for Red are 3.25.89.  It is the first thing I thought of when I heard them mention that date in court. 

We now know KR was most likely a double agent.  She also was a terrible person in my opinion.  

I am going to post the tape conversation on the History board for us.  

 

Tuxie400 wrote:

Honey West - I can see Fitch knowing Red was a fake, but not the rest of the Cabal.

Clearly Fitch and Red had a special relationship. Fitch says, "I always liked you Ray"
He also says something to the effect of, I've been able to hold back the others, but they're not as afraid anymore. I can only keep them at bay for so long.

To me this means there is something unique and different about Fitch and Red which does not apply to the rest of the Cabal.

As for the Cabal, I don't think Peter figured it out until later, and he figured it out on his own. 
I do not think Laurel Hitchens knew. So really, other than Fitch and later Peter, I think those are the only two on the Cabal who knew Red was an impostor.

Tatiana wrote:

Tuxie - I LOVED this episode! Lots of good background and finally some character growth with Ressler. That little smirk when Red's on the stand and he says he has evidence to proved Raymond Reddington was not a traitor. That smirk was priceless!

Yes, Sima deserved that Ressler smirk!  I thought Ressler was a compelling witness both for the presecution and the defense. I just hope Red's realizing Ressler thinks he's an imposter won't get him killed later in the season.
 

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/24/2019 12:00 pm)

Tuxie400 wrote:

Honey West wrote:

So, if the fire at D's place was The Fire, and the supposedly killed Zachary became Reddington, it still doesn’t tell us why. They inferred by the photo that D and Zachary might be a couple. Perhaps that was how they got him to suppress the tape, by threatening to really kill Zachary if he made it public. Or, maybe D was the one using the tape to keep them from killing Zachary? And Zachary becoming the fill-in for the inconveniently dead Real Red was an agreement made with the Cabal in exchange for protecting something bigger? That would explain Katarina being the one taking him to Dr. Koehler.

Sorry to just ramble here, but this episode got me thinking again. I need to watch both episodes again, for sure.

Whether Zachary was a friend or lover, he was obviously still very dear to Minister D since he kept the photo front and center all those years.  And I wonder, since he put the tape in the photo, if he wasn't still using that tape for blackmail purposes of some kind.
 

Yes, clearly that tape was more special than the others. And of course, since this show seems to be all about family and fake-family, I will throw out there that maybe Zachary was a close relative of Jordan's. They wouldn't necessarily have the same name or anything. Temken, Temkin,however it is spelled could be a Russian name. Of course I think of the name Potemkin from history, but I suppose Temkin could be a Russian name, too. And was that really Jordan in the photo? Clearly I need to go back and watch a second time with freeze frame hand to be sure. Could one of the men in the old photo have been Real Red? Or did one of them look enough like Real Red did at that time that they could have been made to pass for him (he wouldn't necessarily have had to look like JS at that age, since plastic surgery was involved and the only early photos we've seen of RR are post-fire and they have all been younger photos of JS).

I don't know why, but when they said fire and explosion and we had seen the scars on Jordan's face I immediately jumped to the conclusion that it was The Fire. I wasn't paying close attention to the dates mentioned, but they seemed close enough and I didn't have references handy. I figured The Fire had to be at the house of someone in on the plot, whatever the plot really was supposed to be about - Fulcrum, getting Masha back, planning to fake deaths so they could disappear, or whatever...

Glad to see you post Eastcoast. Your notes are very handy!

I think we are going to find that a lot of people back then and now are related somehow. But the main interesting line of the show for me was Liz's remark to Jordan that KR took someone from him and from her, but she has found him again.

 

Honey West - I had never hear of Potemkin, but I looked him up and he was quite fascinating. Grigory Potemkin was a military leader and lover of Catherine the Great. He was known as being a talented mimic and did an amazing impression of Catherine herself. She claimed Potemkin was "the greatest, most comical and amusing of characters in this iron century." Potemkin's rule in South Russia is associated with Potemkin Village, a ruse involvign the construct of painted facades to mimic real villages for dinitaries.

A Russian submarine, the Potemkin, was named after him. The crew mutinied against the officers in 1905. That is considered the first step in the Russian revolution.
 

Tuxie400 wrote:

Eastcoast - I'm glad to see you checked in. I was worried about you. The tape was in the photograph frame between the photo and the backing of the frame..The photo and its frame fell out of the box when Liz emotionally said they had to check everything again. Samar found the tape underneath the taped backing of the frame.

It's interesting that you thought Zachary Tempkin looked like Liz.  That sequence went so fast, I didn't even notice the face in the photo.  I went back and looked at it just now. Zachary Tempkin was a cutiie. He does have dark hair like Liz.

I never even thought of Tempkin as being a possibility for Red's identity while first watching the episode.. But if you, Honey West and Aaron Peterson of the Blacklist Exposed podcast have, maybe I'm missing something.

The Blacklister, Jordan Loving, was injured in an explosion that supposedly killed Tempkin,.and he has a scar like the one on Liz's wrist, which he admits Katarina gave him.  And he did disappear from a hospital, which is strange.. When watching, I never thought the explosion might be the fire on fire night. But then I was watching with the old timeline in my head. The Blacklister's number is 99, and that's a pretty high number to be someone who was close to Red.

When Red was testifying, he was so emotional about RR's story, I almost started believing he was the real Reddington again.  What would make Tempkin so emotional about the story of RR and Katarina? How could the lover or friend of such a blackmailer be so tied up with Katarina and RR?  And what would his motivation be for becoming Reddington? I'm just wondering out loud here.

Thank you.  I couldn't tell if it just fell in the floor from the table or not.  
I finally listened to the podcast but I will have to listen again when I get time.  I was listening while doing stuff.  

I also wondered if he could be Seaduke?  But we have no other information about him to tie that in.  
KR slept around so much I wondered if one of these guys could be her father?  But JB said it is RR. 
I am not 100% convinced that guy is dead due to the nature of this show.  What if that guy is the bones?  They said he is dead.  All kinds of stuff floating around in my brain.  I might as well throw it out here.   

Bringing these 2 guys into the picture who had a tape, on an episode with the trial just makes me wonder if it is connected somehow.  Not to mention that scar.  That was a crazy thing to see.  And you are right, he was very emotional.  Did he recognize Liz?  
I wondered, why didn't she kill him?  Because he still had that tape.  What if the explosion in the house was to destroy it, but he had hid it?  He kept it separate from all the others.  

The fire night conversation doesn't make a lot of sense now that we heard all this.