The Blacklist Refugees » The Blacklist Episode 4.08 "Dr. Adrian Shaw

Big Badd Bazzer · 11/10/2016 11:15 pm

LDJones wrote:
On the EW Blacklist site, an interview with the producers says Liz gets lots of her questions answered in this episode. I don't think so! WE got some (maybe) true answers, but she wasn't there. We don't yet know why someone (Red?) took her away, although it has something to do with the fulcrum. We don't yet know about fire night, and who Liz might have shot. So lots more to come!

Frankly, TBL is such a good show. The character of Liz (Masha) is simply a device to advance plot!
The actress chosen to play Liz is probably the weakest link in the cast. Good looking? Yes, Statuesque? Yes!
Acting skills? Limited to below average! Sorry Megan fans, that's just my opinion!
Show still works cuz the show-runners have learned to work around her!

lara1 · 11/10/2016 11:16 pm

Yes, Liz got no answers (not sure we did either really, LOL) but I think this may be a turning point of sorts - she is going to trust and believe Red more, I think (and hope),

Tuxie400 · 11/10/2016 11:18 pm

I like the answer. It's the one my heart always said was true.

Excellent episode! I very much enjoyed it. I do think Red told Kirk that Katarina was alive. Although I doubt he told him where to find her. Still think a sailboat picked Katarina up.

I'm really excited that we have more of Kaplan's story to come.

Tuxie400 · 11/10/2016 11:22 pm

Lisa Dale Jones - You are right. The creators lied about Liz getting her questions answered. The audience yes, but Liz got nothing.

Iowa Watcher - I don't think Red lied. Although he did say yes, he was Elizabeth's father instead of Masha's father.

lara1 · 11/10/2016 11:24 pm

hmmm So Red may have told Kirk that Katarina is alive. But did he lie?

I'm thinking not. But he could have. LOL

lara1 · 11/10/2016 11:29 pm

Tuxie400 #64, Yes, - but why couldn't he just say an affirmative "yes" (and we know when Red says that it tends to be true). So why say I'm Elizabeth's father. And why wouldn't he just answer? Not sure what he had to lose. In the end he just said it - but was it because he thought that is what Kirk wanted to hear?

For now though I will take it at face value. I think the line he says to Liz at the very end when holding Agnes, when Liz says she would have wanted her father to watch Agnes grow up, Red says something like, "I'm sure he would have wanted that too". So that I think is telling - but of course cryptic as usual!!!

Colleen · 11/10/2016 11:38 pm

Hello to all - Wonder if Red whispered in Kirk's ear that Katarina was still alive - similar to Tom whispering in Liz's ear that her father was still alive.

...and prayers to Leonard Cohen's family and fans...an amazing poet and musician...many of his songs would be perfect for The Blacklist...

Tuxie400 · 11/10/2016 11:41 pm

lara1 - You are right about that line at the end being cryptic. I'm very surprised that so many fans are interpreting the "reveal" in so many different ways. Red is always so specific with his words. The Red as mommy theory actually works with this dialog. Red won't say he is Masha's father. But he will say Elizabeth is my daughter. And what about the fact Red knew exactly what Katarina was doing in Kirk's memory. Either she did the exact same thing with Red, or Red knows because he is Katarina. Troy thinks his theory has been validated.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (11/11/2016 2:40 pm)

IowaWatcher · 11/10/2016 11:51 pm

Did anyone catch the photo that Kirk had of the little girl? the girl in the photo reminded me of Bubble Girl. It'll be interesting to compare that photo to others.

lara1 · 11/10/2016 11:54 pm

Tuxie400 - I am thinking that as well! the mommy theory got some new legs. Yeah how did Red know she was dancing.....unless katarina was always running and leaping around and bursting into dance (which is possible if that was part of what she was like)

I definitely need to re-watch and look at Kirk's reaction at the end. I was focused on Red's expressions during that scene.....

lara1 · 11/10/2016 11:55 pm

Iowa Watcher - yes, I saw that photo but didn't get a good look at it. agree, should have a closer look

Big Badd Bazzer · 11/10/2016 11:57 pm

Colleen wrote:
Hello to all - Wonder if Red whispered in Kirk's ear that Katarina was still alive - similar to Tom whispering in Liz's ear that her father was still alive.

...and prayers to Leonard Cohen's family and fans...an amazing poet and musician...many of his songs would be perfect for The Blacklist...

His latest release (JUST OUT A COUPLE WEEKS AGO) "The Darkness" would have been totally a propro for this episode - although the Nick Drake song was pretty cool....

LDJones · 11/11/2016 12:45 am

When we saw Kirk fall onto Red and the syringe went into Red's neck, was that an antidote? There were two syringes, but Kirk's plan was to kill Red by suffocation, not an injection. Was there supposed to be some time lapse there? I got confused by that scene.

LDJones · 11/11/2016 12:56 am

I guess sometimes the little details are the ones that keep me up at night... when Tom and Dembe kidnapped patient zero, how did they know where Red and Kirk were in order to drive her there? A tracking device?

Laocoon · 11/11/2016 1:51 am

I'll vote that Katerina is Red. I've thought the sex change fits the timeline and the plot hints.

Red seemed to know too much about Reddington being an assignment as well as the personal info. The shock on Kirk's face was intense. I can't imagine what other news would result in their joint departure.

A second option is that Red knows where KR is and that he told Kirk that she is still alive. Less likely but similarly persuasive on Kirk if they want to go on a buddy road trip to find her. The plot pattern does have Red making new allies to pursue a hidden third person.

So what happened to the real Reddington? If, as Tom told Liz, your father is still alive, could it be that Red/KR thinks Reddington died in the fire, but whoever really pulls Tom's strings is trying to find the original Reddington.

I'm more perplexed by the Masha vs Elizabeth inconsistency.

Honey West · 11/11/2016 2:38 am

Cool! But I must say the last thing I expected was Red standing in the doorway looking like nothing had happened. Patient Zero was the main plan to get Kirk out of the picture, but if that didn't work and Kirk was willing to die in order to take Red with him, I really think Red told Kirk that Katarina is still alive as his ace in the hole. He's been protecting her all these years and she's wherever Naomi went. It would be funny if Naomi really was Katarina, though. It I agree, the only thing to stop Kirk in the end was telling him about Katarina.

At the last I think Red whispering that to Kirk was most reminiscent of when Red stabbed Marcos and told him to give his regards to all their friends in Hell. But obviously they didn't want us to know what Red told Kirk. And Red said he was "gone", nothing more.

When Kirk gave Red the choice between suffocating and a heart attack, he was choosing what he would inject him with. Something to stop his breathing or his heart. Kirk said he'd become an expert on these various drugs. But Kirk made the decision since Red "always talks too much."

I don't think the whole thing was a Red Plan, though. He had planned the best he could but it was still dangerous and many things could go wrong. Therefore I think the goodbye scene with Dembe was genuine. Red knew there was a good chance he wouldn't be coming back. But he did ask Dembe to forgive him for everything and for Kate in particular.

Speaking of Kate, that was interesting, too. After all this time of making us think that the Hunter was maybe a bad guy, he turns out to really be a good guy. I wondered, because otherwise why save Kate in the first place. I like that they had him give Kate the opportunity to leave. Then had her tell him the truth, minus names, of course. She knew he wouldn't do anything because doing so would expose his presence squatting on government land and he would rather not do that. I wonder what she will do next? Lots of possibilities.

I was right in that WE got an answer but Liz didn't. So the EPs were fooling with us. The main answer that Liz got was certain confirmation that Kirk was definitely not her father. So I guess they were right that Liz would get an answer. Just not the one that we got.

But in the end we got Red admitting to Kirk that Liz is his daughter. I don't think he was lying. Why? By then he had nothing more to lose. If he said no, Kirk was going to kill him, if he said yes, Kirk was going to kill him. Saying yes got him nowhere. That was just for us.

Now to read the recaps. But one last thing - Kate's remark about how much Red loves Liz and Agnes. I think that was a way to corroborate Red's admission. Because after all, Kate is one who knows all about Red.

Forgot to add the image of Katarina hopping the fence and dancing in the window frame. Pretty sure her cover was that she was a ballerina and that probably confirms that idea. I'm pretty sure that's what they were telling us. and also Red telling Kirk that he wasn't an interloper, he was an assignment, and that Kirk probably was, too.

Last edited by Honey West (11/11/2016 2:46 am)

Honey West · 11/11/2016 3:25 am

I loved Ressler's little jab at Tom while he was under the car, "You owe me."
And I forgot Red's defense of his non-goon goons to the doctor. Well, he's a little goonish but he's a great chess player. That was funny.

Read Jodi Walker's recap on ew.com, it's priceless! They also have another article talking with JB about the episode. He's his usual cagey self, but his best answer was about would we ever find out what Red whispered to Kirk. No, because that would end the show. Do tell!

Also saw a few tweets from Daniel Cerone, who wrote it. He says yes, Red is telling the truth. I guess someone pointed out that Red never lies to Liz and he said to just stick with it and have faith in the writers, they know where they're going with all of this and it will make sense.
Hmmmmm.

Honey West · 11/11/2016 4:00 am

Okay, before I rewatch, I have one little question that I don't remember seeing answered. When Tom and Dembe come screeching into the garage with Lucille how did they know where Kirk and Reddington were? Did I miss something?

Oh, okay, I see now. Tom and Dembe met Kirk's guys and they took her to the lair.

Last edited by Honey West (11/11/2016 4:27 am)

Patter · 11/11/2016 8:57 am

I watched 3/4 of the show with captions on. The music is just to loud and I can't hear any conversations.
A few observations:
1. The love and respect Cooper has for Liz and how she is still just as much a part of his team makes me all . "Find Agent Keen." Doesn't Red have a plan for her to be reinstated as an FBI agent and rejoin the Task Force officially?
2. Liz/Megan Boone could have acted a little more worried for not only her life, but Tom's. "Tom better not be dead (x2)." Just because you repeat yourself doesn't make us believe you anymore that you are scared that your husband and father of your sweet baby Agnes could have been shot up!
3. Red says something like he changed during or after something that started with an M. I could not tell you the spelling, but if you rewatch with CC you'll be able to get it. Something like Maggarutted. Ok that is really wrong, but worth investigating (if it hasn't been brought up in the past). We only have OTA, so can't rewatch with CC.
4. During the scene when Kirk gives Red his final dose of whatever and there is a whisper, all the CC says is "Muffled Whispering". So there is no clue there.
5. Has Red confirmed/told ELizabeth she is Masha Rostova? Or did Liz try to connect puzzle pieces back in Season 2 before she shot Tom Connolly? He never calls her Masha. But I guess everyone else doesn't call Tom, Jacob (or any of his other names ;)).
6. Ressler and Tom becoming buddies? I'd watch that cop show!
7. And finally, because I want to be nitpicky: the preview for Jan 5 episode. Typically the showrunners do an excellent job of misdirecting and I hope they are. But we have the "mole" storyline again and we see quick glimpses of who it may be, only to end with Harold standing in front of someone back up against the wall. Doesn't take much to realize it's Samar; however, maybe that's the misdirect????

lara1 · 11/11/2016 9:12 am

Some thoughts on what Red whispered to Kirk. Something that would give Kirk a reason to live.
I'm still going with Katarina being alive, but here are some options, based on theories the have been discussed before:

1. Katarina is alive - and Red is telling the truth
2. Katarina is alive - and Red is lying
3. Red is Katarina
4. Liz is not Masha - Masha is still out there somewhere
5. Red is not Reddington and the real one was shot

The interesting thing about these theories is that one or more can be combined, even though Red may have said only one. for example, if Red said #1, it could mean that, but also #3. 1,2 or 3 could be combined with 4 or 5 or both, or other options.

I think that Katarina is still alive is most plausible, following on Kirk's statement that he couldn't believe it when he heard the news she had killed herself - because she was so full of life - and didn't Red agree with that or even finish that sentence?

The Red is Katarina theory is very intriguing because inlines up with a lot of things, but for me, the scenes with Dom, Red "imagining" Katarina playing with glitter etc contradict that. Then again, there are things to contradict almost any theory.

JB said we would never know what Red whispered because then the show would be over. They've also said they wouldn't reveal Red's connection to Liz tie then for the same reason. So I wonder if what Red said is one and the same.

Parallel to end of Season 1 when Tom whispers to Liz that her father is still alive (fi he said that). What Liz most wants to know. So, Red whispering to Kirk that Katarina is still alive kind of continues that parallel. Although Kirk seems to be more obsessed with his child at the moment - so Masha still being out there somewhere is a contender as well, from that perspective.

Lots more will add some things later.

Last edited by lara1 (11/11/2016 9:14 am)