The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.19 - Ian Garvey: Conclusion

Honey West · 4/26/2018 12:26 am

Eastcoast wrote:
A lie for 30 years?

"Everything about me - is a lie."

Honey West · 4/26/2018 12:54 am

You know, I actually felt sorry for Garvey by the end.

Red’s reaction to Jennifer. I think he did the only thing he could do - go cold and not betray any emotions at all. It’s what allows him to be a cold-blooded killer. Liz does the same thing.

It’s clear that Garvey knows (knew) quite a bit about Red and his history. But not everything. I wonder if he knew as much as Diane Fowler did?

And Garvey purposely pulled off the oxygen mask at the end, not to tell Liz anything, but to hasten his own end.

Jennifer basically gave us a recital of what happened 28 years ago from her point of view which also seems to have been the official story of Reddington the traitor and family abandoner.

This one will take a bit of digestion. Now I will look for the recaps to see what they think.

Tuxie400 · 4/26/2018 5:04 am

Honey West wrote:
Red’s reaction to Jennifer. I think he did the only thing he could do - go cold and not betray any emotions at all. It’s what allows him to be a cold-blooded killer. Liz does the same thing.

And Garvey purposely pulled off the oxygen mask at the end, not to tell Liz anything, but to hasten his own end.

That's an interesting observation about Red going cold and not betraying any emotions - as Liz does too.

I thought Garvey was going to tell Liz something when he pulled off the oxygen mask. I never thought that he might be trying to quicken his death, but that could well be. Do you think he'd rather die than be killed by either the Nash Syndicate or Mosadek's men? And had he lost his motivation of protecting Jennifer, since she was in no danger?

Tuxie400 · 4/26/2018 5:30 am

I really liked what Lisa Babeck of TV Fanatic said in her review.

"Liz is at the end of her rope. She is frustrated, confused and angry as hell. And she has every right to be.

Red telling Liz she wasn't entitled to his knowing his secret was like a slap in the face to her. She's not going to stop until she either finds out the truth, and I get the strong feeling that when that time comes, she's going to be much more dangerous than Raymond Reddington could have ever imagined."

Frankly, I felt like slapping Red when he told Liz she could howl at the moon. Count me Team Liz from here on out.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/26/2018 5:31 am)

Big Badd Bazzer · 4/26/2018 6:50 am

Superb episode. Only minor complaints -

1. Dressler, Samar, Aram (other than tracking a beep) reduced to minor, mostly spectator roles. Harold gets a few licks in but nothing serious

2. Staging of Garvey's escape from the crash. RR & Dembe extremely reckless in allowing a very important captive, freedom of movement, front seat passenger position, etc. For someone who ties things down as much as Red - his character was way off form.

3. Miniscule revelations - other than characters revealing things to each other - but virtually zero morsels tossed to the rabid masses (us)

On a slightly brighter note - Meghan Boone has advanced so far as an actress, combined with decent character development they could almost continue the show as "BLACK LIZ" - with Reddington only appearing in select episodes. Don't know how that would go over with NBC. OK, it wouldn't - they bought into James Spader.

Tuxie400 · 4/26/2018 9:55 am

BBB - I very much agree about Megan's excellent acting this season.

lara1 · 4/26/2018 10:17 am

Birttany #56 - what I have thought, is that Red could have killed the man KR loved, or someone else she loved. You can do something to someone which causes grevious harm without harming them directly.

Last edited by lara1 (4/26/2018 10:27 am)

lara1 · 4/26/2018 10:22 am

Tuxie400 #64 - Interesting. Someone else on here comments (I can't find it now) about how the suitcase (bones) has to involve Liz in some way, hence Kaplan's purpose in revealing it. I'm not so sure about that, and Red's comments to Liz strengthened that view for me. I think it may reveal something horrible (unforgivable?) that Red had done, that he does't want anyone to know about, perhaps so bad that Liz would be convulsed and turn away from him.

Then again Dembe doesn't think its a big deal - but is his urging about telling Liz the "truth" about the suitcase at all? And his comments about what Red "did to" Katarina doesn't sound to me like something liz would be OK about. I think they're two separate things.

Which makes me continue to come back to a second layer of story or parallel story, which would somehow make all of these ends tie up and make sense.

Last edited by lara1 (4/26/2018 10:23 am)

lara1 · 4/26/2018 10:26 am

BBB - I very much agree with you about how Megan's acting has progressed this season. Though, I would not watch a show/another show with her as the lead. Not enough of a pull for me.

Tatiana · 4/26/2018 10:38 am

FINALLY! Loved this episode for all of the unexpected turns, great acting from the actors who played: Garvey, Sinclair, Jennifer, Liz.

Really enjoyed the 'magic trick' with all the Garvey, Mosadek set up.

As a rule, I find the mask removal skit really lame. I'll accept it because it's the Blacklist and because I think they were actually having fun with it. Even so...

Honey West, I wondered what happened when Garvey took his oxygen off. Liz immediately understood: he was going to take the secret to the grave.

Big Bad Bazzer: outstanding performance by Megan Boone once again! I think you and I had the same feelings about her in the first season of the show, but she's absolutely excels now.

Tuxie, interesting she is he, he is her dialogue, right? 😉 that was a little crazy! I had to listen to it a couple if times to make sure i heard it right!

I'm on my phone so I can't see everyone's comments.

Action packed, enjoyable episode! Not much revealed. Next episode seems to be a stand alone. Any ome wonder if the bones reveal means the end of the story? I thought, from last year, that once Liz knew about the bones, there would be
No story left to tell.

lara1 · 4/26/2018 10:55 am

Tatiana - so glad that you got to watch! How disappointing it did not air on time!

interesting comments folks have about Garvey purposely not telling Liz the secret (or at least, the part truth he does know about the secret).

Big question for me now is - why?

Tuxie400 · 4/26/2018 10:57 am

Tatiana - I'm having an issue with hearing this week and totally missed that dialog you're referencing. But apparently it made lara1 sit up and take notice. I'm rewatching today with subtitles turned on, so I better understand it.

Tatiana · 4/26/2018 11:04 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana - I'm having an issue with hearing this week and totally missed that dialog you're referencing. But apparently it made lara1 sit up and take notice. I'm rewatching today with subtitles turned on, so I better understand it.

It's a doozy Tuxie! :-)

Tuxie400 · 4/26/2018 11:45 am

Tatiana- That is curious dialog between Jennifer and Ian:

"He (Reddington) doesn't own her. He is her. And she is him."

Patter · 4/26/2018 2:31 pm

I loved, loved, loved this episode with the exception of the frustration that set in within the last 5 minutes. I wanted Garvey to whisper something to Liz, anything, even if it meant she had no idea and put her back at square one on her journey to seek justice for Tom. I do believe she is owed some reasonable explanation of the bones and why they are so important to Red and Garvey. She doesn't have to know everything, but something for her to accept that Tom fought for her/Agnes/his family until the end. It appears now that he was just the receiver of some damaged goods and took it too far with his spying ways.

Sinclair is such a fun character and his work is very important to him. He did not want to mess up this operation, as he suggested the 1 year timeline (multiple times) for a true and believable transformation. Yet he nailed it all in 16 hours. .Super fun to watch him!

I think we didn't get this big reunion moment with Red & Jennifer because of a few things/distractions: 1. a shootout was about to go down. 2. Red is dealing with Liz being very upset and turning her gun on him. 3. Jennifer was a child (not even a teen) when Red supposedly left. How would he know it's her, especially if she was in WITSEC and untraceable, and later kept her distance from her mother/Naomi. 4. I always believe Red was her stepdad (not that the word "step" should take away any love or meaning of a father/daughter relationship. I, for one, and am extremely close with my stepdad.) But maybe he never saw her as anything more than Naomi's daughter. Like he had no paternal rights to stand on.

Megan Boone's acting was so, so, so good this episode. When her eyes filled with tears when she was pleading for answers, you could just tell how lost Liz has become in all of this. And her own "father" will not even help. Am I serioulsy back to questioning Red (this James Spader, Red) as her father? Yeah, I think I'm there again. Is Red really Red? Why did Garvey really get involved so long ago? What was his problem with Red then?

I wonder if Liz and Jennifer will go head to head or if they will build a relationship and go after Red???

Honey West · 4/26/2018 3:07 pm

I think Jennifer truly despises her father, exactly like Zoe despised Berlin. They were bad men who did bad things thinking they were doing the right things for everyone. I see Jennifer as more like Zoe than like Liz. When Naomi said she kept her part of the bargain regarding Elizabeth, was it to not say anything to Jennifer about her sister? Not just not say anything to the authorities or anyone else. I think Liz knows more about Jennifer than Jennifer knows about Liz. It makes her act more like the big sister. Garvey took away Tom from Liz and now Liz took away Garvey from Jennifer. I suspect that if Garvey had known that Liz was Jennifer’s sister that he would not have killed Tom. He would have come up with a different plan, based on that intel. But in any case, I think, even though she has been pretty relentless in her quest for vengeance, that her conscience may get her in trouble. Probably with everyone, especially when it comes to Red. Family is very important to her, but she may have to decide which part of the family, at the expense of the other. Gonna be some interesting dynamics moving forward. In any case, Garvey shot Red first, he started it. He could have taken his chances that Red might spare him, but no, he fired first.

Anyway, more later gotta get back to work!

Tuxie400 · 4/26/2018 4:44 pm

Patter - I agree that Liz deserves an explanation on the bones. And I was really hoping Garvey would whisper even a syllable or two to her about them before he died. She doesn't want to work against Red, but she feels she must.

That scene with a teary-eyed Liz pointing the gun at Red and Jennifer suddenly finding her courage to protect Garvey was so emotional it brought tears to my eyes. Two daughters hurt to the core by this man they believe is their father. And he stands there stony eyed with his only thought: protecting that damned secret. I don't have any sympathy for Red at this juncture. Of course, that could change. But, as of the end of the last episode, all my sympathy and support goes to Liz and Jennifer.

IowaWatcher · 4/26/2018 6:12 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana- That is curious dialog between Jennifer and Ian:
"He (Reddington) doesn't own her. He is her. And she is him."

I don't know what to make of that, either.

I need to look at the transcripts, as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is Garvey young enough to be Mr. Kaplan's son? Or the son of Mr. Kaplan's sister?

Last edited by IowaWatcher (4/26/2018 6:24 pm)

4/26/2018 7:27 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Patter - I agree that Liz deserves an explanation on the bones. And I was really hoping Garvey would whisper even a syllable or two to her about them before he died. She doesn't want to work against Red, but she feels she must.

That scene with a teary-eyed Liz pointing the gun at Red and Jennifer suddenly finding her courage to protect Garvey was so emotional it brought tears to my eyes. Two daughters hurt to the core by this man they believe is their father. And he stands there stony eyed with his only thought: protecting that damned secret. I don't have any sympathy for Red at this juncture. Of course, that could change. But, as of the end of the last episode, all my sympathy and support goes to Liz and Jennifer.

I agree, Tuxie. Liz standing there with tears in her eyes, saying she doesn't want to pull the trigger, but saying that she does blame Red for Tom's death and throwing his words "this is me howling at the moon' back at him broke my heart. I was really mad at Red in this scene. He is standing there, refusing to stand down despite Liz standing in front of him with her heartbroken. I'm wondering how their relationship is going to withstand this moving forward. Red's going to be hunting down the bag and freezing Liz out now that Garvey is dead and "her part" (in his mind, obviously) is over. Since he considers the bag none of her business. Clearly Liz is going to be taking her own path on this, but how?

And do you think she has ever considered that the secret is a body? She hasn't mentioned it. But she knows that both Nik and Pete McGee (with their medical backgrounds) were sought out by Tom. Maybe she'll start to put it together.

Tuxie400 · 4/26/2018 7:52 pm

Brittany - I think if Red had told Liz something, even a bit, about the secret earlier there was a chance she might have forgiven him - no matter what it was. Now, with what he's doing and his cavalier attitude toward her need to know the secret, he's pushing her so far away, it's less likely she'll forgive him when she finally learns the truth.

Liz doesn't know exactly what's in the duffel bag, but she has to know since Tom enlisted Nik for help, it's something a doctor might know about. She also knows Pete and Lena worked for a medical research company. But I think it's unlikely she would be thinking human remains. If she knew the suitcase came from Kaplan, her mind might go there. But I don't think she knows that part of it.