The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.16 - The Capricorn Killer

Tuxie400 · 3/15/2018 3:48 pm

IowaWatcher wrote:
I saw a blue and a brown eye, as well. Yes, I can see how that might be significant in a later episode. So we only have to wait 3 weeks? That would be awesome. I thought that it was longer last year.

It was longer last year, but there was no Olympics. When you take that two-week break and add it to the upcoming break, it's about the same amount of time. I'm very glad BL will back April 4!

lara1 · 3/15/2018 5:38 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
BBB and other proponents of the "Alternate Task Force - Don't you think Dr. Fulton has an alternate task force of her own? With her profiling skills, she's like the alternate Liz, only older and wiser. Her sidekick looked like an alternate Singleton, who was an alternate Dembe. What Fulton has going is very similar to what Red is doing with the FBI task force. She wasn't assessing Liz for readiness for duty, she was assessing her for readiness for her alternate task force.

All of a sudden, it's like Fringe that season when there were multiple alternate worlds!!!

Tuxie400 - maybe that's where all of the parallel scenes, dialog etc is going - I'm thinking once more, alternate realities (somehow).

lara1 · 3/15/2018 5:41 pm

Tatiana wrote:
Two eye colors can be the result of chimerism or mosaicism, both I believe are due to the incomplete separation of twins or rather, the merging of twins (although this type of eye color can be the result of disease or injury as well.

I dont remember if it's chimera or mosaic but an individual can have two completely different sets of DNA in their body. It's kooky cool science!
But I mention it because of twins/DNA/multiple persons in one body.

Tatiana - I believe chimera effect is with DNA. We had a discussion about it back on the old Support Group board. Someone did quite a bit of research into it. I remember reading a lot about it, because at the time, I was searching for a way that Liz could be related to Red's "daughter" yet not be directly related to him. That's when I was thinking that Liz was a kind of surrogate daughter to Red - and was trying to figure out how they could be connected but not directly connected. I still think that, from time to time. The chimera DNA came up and some of what was found out was pretty fascinating.

lara1 · 3/15/2018 5:44 pm

Oh yes, I recall now, chimera received a good deal of press because it has come up in criminal trials and convictions. Where the DNA results were misleading because of the chimera effect.

Tatiana · 3/15/2018 5:49 pm

I was pretty active in that discussion too:-)

lara1 · 3/15/2018 5:50 pm

Tatiana - sorry I could not remember who else was in that discussion. It was really cool stuff. Thanks for reminding us all I'd completely forgotten about it. LOL

Last edited by lara1 (3/15/2018 5:51 pm)

Tuxie400 · 3/15/2018 6:05 pm

I recall the chimera discusstion too.I think Honey West was also involved.

Big Badd Bazzer · 3/15/2018 6:53 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
BBB and other proponents of the "Alternate Task Force - Don't you think Dr. Fulton has an alternate task force of her own? With her profiling skills, she's like the alternate Liz, only older and wiser. Her sidekick looked like an alternate Singleton, who was an alternate Dembe. What Fulton has going is very similar to what Red is doing with the FBI task force. She wasn't assessing Liz for readiness for duty, she was assessing her for readiness for her alternate task force.

All of a sudden, it's like Fringe that season when there were multiple alternate worlds!!!

Very much so! Only shift is that Dr. Fulton is no longer the ATF2 ring-leader. Black Liz is.

Watched it again. Martha Plimpton has such an under-stated simplicity and/or elegance to her acting. She's truly remarkable.

Tuxie400 · 3/15/2018 7:21 pm

BBB - I agree about Plimpton's remarkable performance!

Tuxie400 · 3/15/2018 8:07 pm

Random thoughts about the last scene in The Capricorn Killer:

1. It's interesting that the last scene with Red and Garvey is set in a woodshed. The writers are playing with idiom of "taking someone to the woodshed." It's fitting since Red seems to be giving Garvey a private reprimand about truth and keeping away from Liz. Seconds later, Liz is on the phone giving Red a private reprimand about telling the truth.

2. I wonder if Red isn't making some colossal mistakes this time. I think he really should have questioned Garvey. He doesn't really know who he's dealing with or what's up with Garvey. And he shouldn't have misled Liz with half truths. We do see her wrath in that promo, and I have a feeling that's just the beginning of Hurricane Liz.

3. I felt the writers were winking at the audience with all that talk of answering questions and getting the whole truth.

4. Red suggested Garvey do some things for enjoyment before Red kills him: scalp massage, crabcakes and perhaps a double feature of 400 Blows and Jules and Jim. Since that sounded like porn, I had to look up the flicks. They are two French films by Francois Truffaut. 400 Blows (1959) is a coming of age film about an adolescent boy who gets into trouble and is sent to reform school. The movie ends with an iconic scene of the boy escaping and running with the joy of freedom into the ocean. Jules and Jim (1962) is the story of a love triangle that features two best friends and a woman who is a doppelganger of the statue of ancient goddess from an island in the Adriatic Sea. This one ends with the watery murder/suicide of the woman and one of the friends, while the other friend looks on in horror.

5. This is the second time in recent weeks that Red has been called odd, first by Sinclair and now by Garvey.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/15/2018 8:12 pm)

lara1 · 3/15/2018 10:05 pm

Tuxie400 - the woodshed scene with Red and Garvey I believe was also a woodshop - it reminded me of Dom's woodshop though that was on a smaller scale.

3/15/2018 10:05 pm

When Dr. Fulton talked about keeping an eye on Liz ever since she shot the attorney general, she mentioned that she purposely sought out Liz's evaluation once it was ordered because her being both a profiler and Red's daughter was exhilarating. Was she implying that she somehow knew Liz was Red's daughter before she got her case? How? Did she keep tabs on her personnel file? Or was it something she learned once assigned?

Tuxie400 · 3/15/2018 10:20 pm

Brittany - I would think Fulton did keep tabs on Liz's personnel file, and when Cooper said he had to report her parental link with RR, that's when she would have found out Liz was RR's daughter.

Tatiana · 3/15/2018 10:21 pm

Brittany - there's something completely off about that psychologist.

I watched it again today and I question whether Liz was on to her or if she really fell for the psych. Everything before this episode indicated that Liz was still a stand up agent and nothing like Reddington. But once the psychologist told Liz about Sandman, Liz immediately questioned how she was able to get access to those confidential files.

It was after that that Liz talked about wanting to take vengeance on the criminals she chased.

I'm probably all wrong on this, but I'd like to see if anyone else thought maybe Liz was pretending or if she was genuine in her compliance with the psych?

lara1 · 3/15/2018 10:29 pm

Tatiana - interesting thought. Its hard to tell but I haven't re-watched yet. But didn't Liz start to talk about her darker impulses at the end of last week's episode? I can't remember....

So, a profiler and a psychiatrist. Was Liz profiling the psychiatrist? I don't know. I do know Liz would do anything to get reinstated and help take down Tom's killer, so its possible she did play with it a bit. Although - that could have backfired because she could have been deemed unfit to return. So maybe, that approach wouldn't make sense for her to do?

Eastcoast · 3/16/2018 12:00 am

lara1 and Tatiana the 2 post above.

I have felt something off key with all her questions to Liz about revenge, coloring outside the lines etc.... Was not too much into anything positive in my opinion.
At first I thought she was just trying to push her and then I felt like she was trying to get at something and I didn't know what? It crossed my mind if she new of Navaro and was in with Garvey somehow and was trying to get her to confess to that.
But as soon as she said the Sandman and Liz asked her about how she knew of it, I told myself I bet she is in on these killings and wants to get Liz to do this stuff to reinstate her.
I also felt like Liz knew As Soon as she said Sandman and that it was her job to know. Liz knew that she would not have All that info. She became very animated in the way she talked after that!

Eastcoast · 3/16/2018 12:05 am

lara1 wrote:
Oh yes, I recall now, chimera received a good deal of press because it has come up in criminal trials and convictions. Where the DNA results were misleading because of the chimera effect.

That was a very detailed discussion! I remember a case in the news where they said a mother was not the mother of her kids and they had to get DNA from a biopsy to prove she was.

Tuxie400 · 3/16/2018 12:27 am

So you guys think Liz is playing Dr. Fulton? When Liz ran after her, I thought she was going after her to arrest her. But then, surprisingly, Liz just let her go. Why wouldn't she have turned her in?. How could Fulton have explained being in that cabin with the Sandman? Did Liz do it just to get reinstated? I don't know. I'm feeling pretty uneasy about Liz and her darker impulses.

Eastcoast · 3/16/2018 12:38 am

It is an uneasy feeling. But that woman already has a whole task force fooled. I was thinking Liz may not have wanted to take a chance that she could have explained her way out of it. She could have said he kidnapped her and then Liz might be screwed and not be reinstated. I think she wants to see where it leads and if she can use her for something later on.

3/16/2018 8:27 am

I couldn't remember if it was mentioned somewhere in the episode that I missed or if it was likely that she just kept peeking at Liz's file.

I tend to think Liz is doing what Red does with the assets he cultivates--he allows them to believe whatever they need to about his character and what he is capable of in order to keep them loyal to him and use them whenever he needs to. I think Liz is a lot like Red in some ways and she has seen that Fulton seems to find Red fascinating (contrary to her little rant in the car to him), so she's going to use that to her advantage. Plus, not only did she rely on Fulton to get her reinstated, but Liz needs to keep the fact that she knew the identity of the second person in the cabin and let her go for her own purposes from the FBI. Because she would not only get her badge taken away again but likely also get into legal trouble for aiding a fugitive.

Last edited by Brittany (3/16/2018 8:28 am)