Lara - thanks a bunch. I just hear a deafening roar of silence for that time frame. You would even think there would have been something in his record if he was still in counterintelligence. Or even if he wasn't be cause we hear nothing up until Christmas Eve 1990. 

We only ever had Katarina’s word that the KGB learned of her affair and she was only speculating that the US intelligence knew as well, correct?  I don’t recall anyone bringing it up before Kirk and it is only ever mentioned in the journal and by KR to Kate in Requiem.  What if no one actually knew at the time,  at least not on the US side?  What if Red was able to hide it until he disappeared? The only person to really allude to anything before Kirk was the Director.  He told Red that he knew who Red was to Liz.  While vague, “who you are to her” implies a relationship of some sort.

Last edited by Brittany (3/04/2018 6:47 pm)

Tuxie400 - interesting about Orthodox Christmas, but I tend to doubt that's the case.  Not only does Ressler refer to just "Christmas Eve", national television broadcasts did also when reporting on Red's "capture" in Braxton; Americans generally understand Christmas Eve to be Dec 24, the eve of the US national holiday so anything other than Dec 24 would have been specified, eg January whatever.  IN any event, I don't see how that solves what happened to Red in 1990 - whether its Christmas in Dec 1989 or Jan 1990, we still have nothing for him for the entire year of 1990.  Of course nothing in TBL land is impossible.  

In Red's story to Maddie he mentions oyster stew, which is an American thing for Christmas Eve.  Of course that story could have been entirely fabricated.  I don't happen to think its fabricated entirely, just some details made up.  But there is nothing to say its true.

lara1 wrote:

Tatiana - I looked at this myself the other day. The only thing I know of is KR walking into the ocean about 2 months after the fire and red confirmed it was 1990. The gap to dec 1990 after that is approx 10 months - the same time as Liz spent in the coma.

Does anyone remember whether the newspaper article inRequiem had a date? I know I looked for that but done remember. If there was it must have been consistent with that timeline or I think I would have remembered.

​It did not show the date on the paper that I could tell, but the dates of the cars were from 2001-2005 or 06.  I think someone said they made a mistake with the paper. 
​So could that have really been on purpose so we did not have a actual date to go by? 
 

I was just looking at the timeline and 1990 was a busy year. 
​Liz is kidnapped. 
​There is a fire where Liz is at and KR brings her to the hotel to Kate.  
KR walks into the ocean.
Red disappears. 
​Naomi and her daughter are put into protective custody.  
​The picture of Berlins daughter is taken.  
Dom says he came to the us and changed his name.  


 

I think we can say the orthodox Christmas can be debunked.

Here's two things that pop out to me:

1. The trigger for Red's disappearance is not fire night, but increasing pressure and threats culminating in the death of one of his associates by the stewmaker December 1990.

2. Can we suppose that Liz lived with Red at explosion house until 1988, then she was taken away by Katarina. How to explain growth chart up until 3 years old?

Yes - I forgot to add, the Stewmaker photo of Berlin's daughter dated Dec 1990.  AS I recall, the place of that photo in the book was out of order, I can't remember exactly what it was, but we commented on it at the time. My idea on it (which others may have too, I have no idea), was that the photo was dated and inserted where it was very purposefully.  As in, the actual Stewmaker thing took place after Dec 1990 but was dated Dec 1990 as a warning to Red, especially when a copy was left for him as a warning.  

 So to me, something happened in Dec 1990 that caused Red to disappear - whether or not he came home to find his family taken or killed.

The thing I don't get about how Liz lived "on and off" at Kirk's house - unless that is another lexical ambiguity - is that we never see Kate and Liz except at the house.  KR employed Kate precisely because KR's "work" meant she was away a lot, traveling.  She did not (that we were shown) take Liz with her.  Kirk was also away a lot.  So until Masha was kidnapped by Reddington, she seemed to stay at Summer Palace and "the campus" (whatever that was).

So I can't make Takoma Park fit into the KR/Liz timeline.  I can't see how it was fire house either, from the news report we were shown, the fire was in "downtown" and showed something more like more modern townhouses, not detached Victorian homes.  So, if the room they pass in the fire memories was Liz's room (I happen to think it was another girl's room, but that's my thing, LOL), how was she living in Takoma Park?
Then again, Liz's memories were messed with, so maybe even that was changed?   although based on what we saw the Dr. do, he inserts actions by people superimposed over existing places.  LOL  that fire memory could mean anything.  

Tatiana, re the stew maker photo, I think the discussion was on the old board.  I can't remember if the real date of when Berlin's daughter went to the Stewmaker was derived from the Kursk bombing dates and figuring out from what Red and Berlin said, or if it was just placed out of order in the album - because the Stewmaker was meticulous in his chronicling of the photos.  I think there are freeze frames out there somewhere that show the dates of the photos surrounding the photo of berlin's daughter, like the Dec 1990 date on the photo was out of order with the others.  So much to remember!  LOL