Brittany wrote:

Side note: I started playing the Blacklist Conspiracy game after this episode because I knew the Invisible Hand was from the game. Now I’m into it.

Brittany, you are braver than I am. I do not dare start that game because I know what will happen!! lol 

​I can not belive the Red in KR theory unless this turns into a sci-fi show. I listed a whole list of medical reasons why I didnt think it could happen somewhere on here or the other board. 

Last edited by Eastcoast (2/12/2018 2:09 am)

KathyN- It seems like people in the Blacklist universe have short memories because Liz was able to go undercover in the Harem without anyone remembering her as an FBI agent that had been on the run.  Not to mention her badge was used to run the search.   But Garvey may not have bothered finding out who ran the search, just that it triggered certain results and that he could tell it came from outside of a federal building. 

And as for Garvey connecting the bones to Red, I tend to think he had known Red from the past and that the DNA match from CODIS allowed him to connect it to Red somehow.  Thanks to people enlarging on Garvey's ring we know he was once Navy (that, or they used an old prop). Assuming he was indeed Navy, he may have worked with Red in the Navy.  I noticed he didn't appear to question that Tom had called Red when they were in the barn.  It made me think he may have known Red's voice.  And him not being willing to call him directly made me wonder if Red would have known his voice.  Now we know Garvey is specifically a US Marshal, so there may be some connection there as well.  

Last edited by Brittany (2/12/2018 7:22 am)

KathyN - I did find online confirmation that viable DNA from cold cases dating back to the 1980s have been added to CODIS. I think the only way Garvey could connect the bones to Reddington would be if the bones match a known relative. Even if it was a close associate, the bones could be of interest to others besides Reddington.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/12/2018 8:46 am)

Tuxie400 wrote:

Brittany - Who verified Garvey's ring was Navy? I have seen several people guessing it was Navy. The one person I know of who thought the symbol on the side was Navy now thinks that could be a U.S. marshal symbol.

I can't remember who it was, but whoever had enlarged it (there were several) said the insignia on the side was Navy.  

EDIT:  I can't find the pictures of the side enlarged to see the insignia on it.   I'm not necessarily tied to the ring being of any importance. It could just be a prop.  It's just one of the infinite possibilies. ;)

Last edited by Brittany (2/12/2018 9:08 am)

Just a few thoughts on Garvey -  I believe that his role as a US Marshall alerted him to the CODIS search, as somehow being involved with the original entry of the bones DNA for whatever reason.  From what I understand, the agency that originally added the info to CODIS is contacted when a CODIS request is done.  So I'm thinking that the US Marshals office, originally, was somehow involved in the bones "case".  But since the bones were not discovered by any law enforcement agency (or it seems unlikely as they appear to be out in the wilderness somewhere, then buried by Kaplan), either the DNA of the person they match to is in CODIS, or that of a relative is.  My point being that it seems very unlikely that the DNA of the bones was entered in and of themselves as part of a crime scene.  As a missing person, though, yes

The question for me is, how did Garvey know of the bones' significance, and for me, there has to be some old connection with Red.  And perhaps, as part of the US Marshalls service back then he was involved too.  Though its an open question I think, what part of the Marshalls service, there are a couple of potentials, some more complex than others.

I believe that Garvey's sophisticated surveillance equipment enabled him to trace the origin location of the request to Pete.  Maybe the remote location was a huge red flag, and why he didn't focus on the Liz Keen/FBI piece of it.  The location of the request came from outside the FBI, implying the bones were too.

Just some random thoughts.  

I think it was somewhere on Tumblr.  I did a little searching but don't see it.   Even if it is a Navy ring, it doesn't necessarily mean that's how Red and Garvey knew each other.  But I do think their paths have crossed somewhere along the way.  

That’s probably where I saw it, Tuxie.  Lol.

I wasn’t even aware Marshalls had rings.  Interesting. 

Has anyone else noticed that the hand which gives Liz the bunny in the fire looks like it would belong to an older man?  Not that I give much weight to fire memories but I noticed that when looking at someone’s gif today.

Brittany, you're right that Liz has gone unrecognized before which strains credulity, but could still be believable if enough time passed,  in this case, if the bones are Katarina's, seeing that Garvey is a federal marshall and recognizes the importance of the bones to Red, it's really not believable he wouldn't recognize Liz.  If Katarina is not on his radar, or in his sphere of orbit, it could almost be believable he didn't know who Liz was.  But then the bones wouldn't be hers.

That's very interesting Tuxie about old DNA being entered into CODIS. That does open up the possibility that they could be Katarina's if  her blood had been around somewhere, maybe at the scene of the fire, maybe outside the house if she was wounded and bleeding when she left.  But again, if Garvey was that interested in Katarina's bones, wouldn't he know that Liz was her daughter when he met her?

I think because this is the Blacklist and has a series long history of its writers doing this, another very real possiblity is that the bones are of someone the audience hasn't met yet.  The show has tied up most of its riddles with people we hadn't heard of before (best examples Berlin, the Major, Alexander Kirk, Anslo Garrick, etc.)  We didn't know any of those people until they were introduced episodes after some mystery surrounding them happened.  It would be easy to make it work out that Tom recognized the name from his work for the Major, or his work with Berlin, or from stories he heard while working with Scottie and company (from her, his father, or his team), or from Gina, or his fake brother, etc.  They could build a whole new storyline around these bones and who they were in Red's past and how they relate to Liz. In an interview, Bokenkamp said the bones represented a bigger story that was the hook of the show and were a piece of a much larger puzzle, so they would still have to belong to someone important to the mythology, but that absolutely does not preclude that it's someone we haven't been introduced to yet, someone whose story we don't know and can't guess because we haven't met their character yet. This is the Blacklist, it wouldn't be the first time the audience was spinning their wheels trying to figure something out with what was already in the story only to have it be something (the fulcrum) or someone (see names above) we could never have guessed because they weren't known to us at the time.

lara1 wrote:

Just a few thoughts on Garvey -  I believe that his role as a US Marshall alerted him to the CODIS search, as somehow being involved with the original entry of the bones DNA for whatever reason.  From what I understand, the agency that originally added the info to CODIS is contacted when a CODIS request is done.  So I'm thinking that the US Marshals office, originally, was somehow involved in the bones "case".  But since the bones were not discovered by any law enforcement agency (or it seems unlikely as they appear to be out in the wilderness somewhere, then buried by Kaplan), either the DNA of the person they match to is in CODIS, or that of a relative is.  My point being that it seems very unlikely that the DNA of the bones was entered in and of themselves as part of a crime scene.  As a missing person, though, yes

The question for me is, how did Garvey know of the bones' significance, and for me, there has to be some old connection with Red.  And perhaps, as part of the US Marshalls service back then he was involved too.  Though its an open question I think, what part of the Marshalls service, there are a couple of potentials, some more complex than others.

I believe that Garvey's sophisticated surveillance equipment enabled him to trace the origin location of the request to Pete.  Maybe the remote location was a huge red flag, and why he didn't focus on the Liz Keen/FBI piece of it.  The location of the request came from outside the FBI, implying the bones were too.

Just some random thoughts.  

 
I still think that the USMarshall involvement might have something to do with the disappearance of Jennifer. I would think that if someone in witness protection just vanishes that it is cause for concern. And I have also wondered about Naomi's "is he back?" Question that she may have been referring to someone besides Red. We just assumed she meant him at the time. But she may have meant someone else.

Honey West - I agree with everything you said in #277 and #278!