The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.13 - The Invisible Hand

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 7:54 pm

lara1 wrote:
I've been thinking some more about what Dembe and Dom are urging Red to tell Liz. Neither of them really says it would not be painful for her. They seem to either say, or imply, that she deserves to know. Because it has to do with her and who she is. Not necessarily an easy thing to tell her. Which may explain why Red can't bring himself to do it.

Also - Tom may not have necessarily figured out "everything" = he may have thought he did, based on what he knew, but what if he was missing an important twist - Red seemed to think Tom came to only a partial conclusion....may have jumped the gun like Liz has done in the past. Given all of the mystery around the bones, I think more and more than Tom figured out a part of it, maybe an important part of it, but he did not have the available information to figure out, or to know, all of it. Just my two cents!!!!

I wonder if what Dom and Dembe want Red to tell Liz is the same thing Carla/Naomi told him he should tell her way back in Season 2.

I agree that Tom probably didn't have the whole thing figured out, but he likely had figured a key piece.

lara1 · 2/10/2018 10:43 pm

OK so I re-watched The Cook tonight so I could see the last couple of scenes.

One thing I noticed - a small detail - when Tadashi is on the computer in Red's suite there's a little hanging desk clock that reminds me in style of "the" clock in the flat that had the camera. Yet, its not the same clock. interesting.

But most interesting is that I can confirm that Agnes, in addition to now having dark brown hair, has brown eyes. Something strange is going on. She goes from blondish-red blue eyes infant and high chair Agnes to brown haired brown eyes Agnes? I know that young children's eye color can change from blue, but isn't that in something like the first six months, or maybe year, of life? Not later. Or am I wrong. And it seems like Agnes is older than 2 -2 1/2. though I suppose that can be explained by more passage of time than we'd thought.......

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 10:50 pm

lara1 - Agnes is way different. Maybe they couldn't find a child actress with similar hair/eye color who could take direction. I don't think this kid is that great of a little actress. The others in the daycare scene seemed much better.

lara1 · 2/10/2018 10:59 pm

Tuxie400 - perhaps that is the case. But its strange they chose to do a close up of her face as she slowly turns (that action reminded me a little bit of "real" ballerina girl), They could have filmed her from a distance through the window and no one would have know she has a different eye color. It does give pause for thought but then again maybe they just didn't think of it......

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 11:07 pm

There may be something strange going on with the wildly different Agnes. The more I thought about it, the more I was reminded of the very different Hudsons we've had in the series, and the way Ellie had three wildly different careers.

lara1 · 2/10/2018 11:59 pm

I am rewatching the Invisible Hand. check out this piece of dialog I missed the first time around.

The very first scene with Anna Hopkins....the Katarina maybe look alike...she is with her assistant and she says something like, "what's next I want to finish up....."

"I want to get back to the hotel and take a bath..." whoa. No doubt in my mind now whatsoever that she's a symbol for KR even if she isn't the real thing....

Also what is it with this show and eyes...thinking of Agne's eyes. They're not just brown, they are so dark they are almost black. And in this episode Red jokes about "in the eye of The Hand..."

Tuxie400 - I like your comparison to Hudson and Ellie. I'm not convinced the others at least were not continuity issues. It will all come out in the end. The dogs symbolize something.....

lara1 · 2/11/2018 12:05 am

OK here's another maybe clue.....right after the scene with Anna Hopkins, we are shown the leader of The Invisible Hand at home, who removes his bloody tooth and puts in on the table.

the tooth being the means that Pete was able to ID the bones, or at least run it through CODIS.

Another clue linking KR maybe to the bones. lots of hints now pointing that way. unless its all misdirection but based on the clues alone the conclusion would be KR as the bones. Maybe.

Eastcoast · 2/11/2018 12:12 am

Kathy N, welcome!!

Lancoon, nice to see you here again!!

Eastcoast · 2/11/2018 12:15 am

Let us not forget that a piece of the shirt was missing when Cooper cut a piece away for the DNA test he ran.
Garvey could have put that in CODIS? I do however still think that the Red we know is her father.

The thing about Jennifer I find strange is that he really didn't engage that conversation with Liz. He just moved on from it. He did talk to Naomi about her. I cant figure out why her bones would be a big deal to Garvey?

lara1 · 2/11/2018 12:24 am

Eastcoast wrote:
Let us not forget that a piece of the shirt was missing when Cooper cut a piece away for the DNA test he ran.
Garvey could have put that in CODIS? I do however still think that the Red we know is her father.

The thing about Jennifer I find strange is that he really didn't engage that conversation with Liz. He just moved on from it. He did talk to Naomi about her. I cant figure out why her bones would be a big deal to Garvey?

Eastcoast - I think the idea is not that it is Jennifer's bones, rather that there is a match in some way between the bones and Jennifer, as her DNA is in the system as part of the witness protection program. So the bones are related to Jennifer. Which could mean that the bones are maybe the real RR.

Unless Tuxie had a different thought with that.

Eastcoast · 2/11/2018 12:25 am

Dom did say he got as far away from the Pack after Red made a mess of things.

I think he just flat out lied to Liz about most of the stuff he said because she told him she didn't know her mother. I am sure he knew her memory was changed. I think he was in and out of America.
I think Liz knows he lied about some things. For one thing, She knew her mom was a spy and we have no record of her working in that place with Dom? Why would she need to work in there? I do not think Kirk is the kind of man that would even let her do that. Seams very unlikely.

Eastcoast · 2/11/2018 12:27 am

I see what you mean now Lara. I didn't look at it like that.

Eastcoast · 2/11/2018 12:32 am

The only other thing I came up with today as I was pondering is that they are Naomi? Which would mean, who was pretending to be Naomi? KR?

Tatiana · 2/11/2018 12:48 am

Eastcoast wrote:
Dom did say he got as far away from the Pack after Red made a mess of things.

I think he just flat out lied to Liz about most of the stuff he said because she told him she didn't know her mother. I am sure he knew her memory was changed. I think he was in and out of America.
I think Liz knows he lied about some things. For one thing, She knew her mom was a spy and we have no record of her working in that place with Dom? Why would she need to work in there? I do not think Kirk is the kind of man that would even let her do that. Seams very unlikely.

The last time we were led to believe that Liz is just a gullible "sweetheart" was when she was in Alaska in that far away cabin and the three men were trying to tell her some story about their little plans crash a few miles away. She knew they were lying. And I suspect she will know Dom is lying too with that cockamamy story about how he was in intelligence in Russia (civil portion no less) and he knew Katrina very well. She knows for darn sure that they would never cross paths in those positions.

Tatiana · 2/11/2018 12:51 am

Notice the bottle of scotch Dom brings out to share with Liz?

lara1 · 2/11/2018 12:54 am

eastcoast and Tatiana - good points. I don't think Red ever told Dom about the whole Kirk/Agnes saga, the Summer Palace etc and as you say the KR as spy story would not jive with her working in Russia in the civic section. Unless that's where she went every time she left the Summer Palace (which seemed to be often and for long periods). But I'm guessing it was not Moscow, but rather, she was on assignment somewhere.

Wouldn't it be something if Liz sneaks back there and roots around the garage and unearths her drawing
Or, Aram hears something from Liz and chimes in with his own info.

lara1 · 2/11/2018 12:57 am

Tatiana wrote:
Notice the bottle of scotch Dom brings out to share with Liz?

Yes!!! I was going to write about that. So they share the same (rather eclectic) Scotch and those checkered coffee mugs. IMO telegraphing a definite father/child relationship....among other things.....

lara1 · 2/11/2018 1:00 am

OK, more Cs and those cavelike fences. The Toymaker's name is Cleveland. And behind where he sits is one of those tall fences enclosing stuff. And blinds on the door.....As a bright red light shines down on LIz.....

Tuxie400 · 2/11/2018 10:53 am

lara1 - When I watched the episode, I didn't pick up on Anna as a symbol for Katarina. But she may be. The fact that she said, I have to get back to the hotel and take a bath and the tooth falling out may be arrows that point toward Katarina being the mystery bones. (Or at least a red herring the writers are giving the audience). But people with bone cancer do have teeth falling out. It was a major plot point on the X-Files the same night our episode aired.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/11/2018 10:55 am)

Tuxie400 · 2/11/2018 11:00 am

Eastcoast - lara1 is right about my take on Jennifer's involvement. The bones wouldn't be hers. They would just match the DNA on her in CODIS as a missing person. My thinking was it was Garvey's mission to capture Red. He would have the same role as Gale, but be a lot more eveil and connected to Fire Night in some way.