The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.13 - The Invisible Hand

Eastcoast · 2/10/2018 2:27 am

Brittany wrote:
I need Glen, Dom and Red in the same room like yesterday! Someone make this happen. 😂😂

I agree!! They have had plenty of time to make this happen!

Eastcoast · 2/10/2018 2:44 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Is Katarina Rostova alive?

1. Red always insisted to Liz that Katarina was dead until the Velov reveal. Did Red really not know, or did he mean she was dead metaphorically?
2. Velov told Liz in a letter he'd followed her to Prague where she left a photo of Masha/Liz behind. I can't think of any motivation Velov would have to lie to Liz.
3. Dom says, "What really happened to her - I think there are some people who want to keep that a secret. And I think they will do whatever is necessary even now to keep it that way" That tells me she didn't die walking into the ocean.. But yet he did accuse Red of killing his whole family.
4. If Red wasn't the one who helped her escape, was it Dom? He does always wear plaid. LOL

I think there are three options:
1. Katarina is alive somewhere.
2. Katarina is Redarina.
3. Katarina staged her suicide, but died later, perhaps due to something Red did.

I have been thinking about this a lot the last few days.

When KR called Kate she said she was going to leave the country. I think she went to Prague and came back and then called Kate from Cape May. I think she may have thought her options were running out.

I also think she may have went to try to get Masha from Sam and her name had been changed and she didn't know who she was. She told Red at Cape May her child was being raised by someone else. I do not think that was what she had planned on when Kate took her to Sam. When she called Kate the last time she told her she wasn't coming back. I do not think she felt like she had an option.

I agree with 1 and 3 Tuxie. When I just saw Dom on this episode I was thinking back to him and Red at his house when he was in his barn. He told him he had no right going through her things. It just doesn't seam logical he would say that if he were her.

Big Badd Bazzer · 2/10/2018 9:18 am

Brittany wrote:
I need Glen, Dom and Red in the same room like yesterday! Someone make this happen. 😂😂

Yes, Blacklist Gods, deliver us this parcel . . . . lol

Big Badd Bazzer · 2/10/2018 9:21 am

Find it so interesting that after 5 seasons of this amazing NBC show - the most believable character as a remorseless killer & monster is none other than our little ballerina, Masha Rostova, aka Liz Keen.

The actress who plays Liz may be inexperienced in everyday nuance and theatre form - but when she goes into "Remorseless Exterminator Mode" she's truly unparalleled.

2/10/2018 10:19 am

I was thinking about the information getting to Liz and Red that Tom’s killer is a cop. Did Tom tell Red that a CODIS search had been run? I can’t remember. Because I would have thought Red would immediately have been suspicious of a cop or federal agent. But perhaps now that he has confirmation he can narrow it down more to a specific agency or person?

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 12:23 pm

Brittany - Tom never told Red a CODIS search had been run. At the time of the Ian Garvey episode, Red only knew that Nik and Pete had been trying to help Tom identify the bones.

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 12:33 pm

Dom to Liz - "Your eyes remind me of someone."

We automatically thought he was referring to Katarina. But Liz's eyes - in color at least - don't look much like the Katarina we've been shown. Liz's eyes have usually appeared dark blue in color. They did a close face shot after that line with light shining in her eyes so the color looked lighter. Lotte Verbeek's as Katarina's are more of a blue-green - like Spader's. Perhaps Dom was referring to the intensity of Liz's gaze, or maybe they look like her grandmother's. Despite Peter's remark about the resemblance and now Dom's, I don't think Liz looks a bit like Katarina.

But the line, "Your eyes remind me of someone" just served to remind me how much I think Katerina and Red's eyes are alike and how lara1 has pointed out the camera fixation on Red's eyes in the Adrian Shaw Part II torture scene and the Requiem scene where Red lures Kate into the criminal business. Maybe that line should have come from Kirk or Kaplan. Yes, it does have me thinking Redarina again.

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 12:44 pm

Eastcoast - This show doesn't really have a track record of being logical. If it were, Elizabeth Keen would have never been re-instated as an FBI agent after killing the attorney general of the United States. Assistant Director Cooper would not welcome Keen back as an agent now, knowing full well she needs to use them as part of her revenge plan. And Tony the Mailman wouldn't need to steal cocaine when he's making millions with Red from the criminal BnB.

2/10/2018 1:19 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Brittany - Tom never told Red a CODIS search had been run. At the time of the Ian Garvey episode, Red only knew that Nik and Pete had been trying to help Tom identify the bones.

Thanks Tuxie. I feel like I had assumed Red knew about the CODIS search, but then realized I didn't remember that discussion with Tom. So he wouldn't necessarily be suspicious of someone with access to CODIS. He may not have been certain Tom knew the truth. But someone else saying they know the truth does terrify him. But knowing now that the person is a cop, Red may start to suspect that they ran DNA.

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 1:25 pm

Eastcoast - If Dom knew Red was Katarina, none of this from Artax seems logical or makes sense:

1. Dom calling Red a selfish prick.
2. Red drinking the buttermilk and not knowing it reminds Dom of home.
3. Dom getting mad at Red for going in Katarina's trunk.

#1 and 3 only make sense if either Dom doesn't know Red is Katarina, or if Dom is angry and has never forgiven Katarina for her choice to become Raymond Reddington. I think people in that age range would have a really hard time accepting gender change.

If Red is Katarina, wouldn't she have drank buttermilk with Dom as a child? We don't know that Katarina spent much time with Dom as a child. As dangerous spy Oleander, he might have been gone a lot. Also sometimes adults try things they hated as children to see if their tastes have changed.

If Red is Katarina, that would explain the Artax line about Dom always having a reason to walk out the door.
It would explain why Red looked so fondly at Katarina's games and toys, and how he knew how Katarina the girl felt about glitter.
It would explain our eerie feelings each time Red and Dom are together that Dom is Red's father.
It would explain why Red felt so protective of Dom that he never told Kaplan about him.
It would explain why Red trusted Dom enough to bury the last-resort island go-box in his shed.
It would explain why Red told Liz the Jeep Wagoneer he stole smelled like dad's.

This show is fiction and not real life. I'm starting to think the reason someone had Liz's memory wiped around the Leonard Caul episode was because after Red's shooting, she did discover his original gender.

That's what I'm thinking today. By tomorrow I may have decided there are too many things that negate it. And there are a lot of things that do.

Tatiana · 2/10/2018 1:45 pm

Hey fellow sleuths! I'm late to the table. Hubby was out of town on Wednesday so we only saw this last episode just now.

Someone probably already brought this up, but Oleander is a poisonous plant. From a linguistic/etiological sense, the word Oleander is possibly derived from the Greek, Ollyo, "I kill" and ander/andro which is the noun for man. You could surmise that the name means "I kill men" or I am a man who kills, etc. Even if you don't get that thick into the weeds on this, Oleander is definitely associated with poison and death.

My point is, why is Dom "Oleander"? One who kills men? We've always associated Red as the criminal who kills men with impunity. But is Dom the greater criminal? Dom/Oleander has something to do with the bones in the suitcase. It makes the most sense then that those bones are Raymond Reddington's bones, Masha's real father. And that's the secret Red and Dom (and Kaplan up til the end) were trying to keep from Liz.

The interaction between Dom and Red is very close in some way, although we don't know the actual relationship. We think of Dom sympathetically: he's the kind Papa who misses his daughter. He would not kill his daughter. But would he order a hit on the spy who's having an affair with her? He certainly does not clear the mystery of Katarina's existence with Liz.

I have so many thoughts on this, but those theories go on a different thread. Anyway, if no one has brought it up, I'd love to hear what any of you think of Dom's role? and the fact that he is Oleander?

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 1:58 pm

Tatiana - I have missed you and your insights! As of today, I'm thinking those bones are the real Raymond Reddington. My new theory is the U.S. Marshals entered Jennifer Reddington's DNA in CODIS when she disappeared from Witsec circa 2007, and Garvey has been monitoring that for years because he wanted to catch Raymond Reddington. But of course it should have also matched Liz's DNA, so I don't know why Garvey acted like he didn't know who Liz was.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/10/2018 2:00 pm)

Tatiana · 2/10/2018 2:16 pm

Honey West - that is a very logical break down and it makes me swing back into the Red is Katarina camp. The question that comes up is, who, then is in the suitcase?

We know that gender reassignment surgery was far more effective in the 1990s and in fact had passed the experimental stages in the 60s and 70s so it's more than plausible.

Actually, in the fire memory sequence, someone had posted screen shots of 'Katarina' in front of the open window. I often thought it didn't look just right. She is dressed in a long coat and what appears to be army boots with crossed shoe laces up the length of the shin. If you look at the face closely, it doesn't look altogether female. In fact, it has a rather prominent and roundish chin, much like Spader's. I don't have the capacity to do it, but it would be interesting to do a transposition of Spader's face over that screen shot.
(I thought I still had it, but I can't find it now).

Tatiana · 2/10/2018 2:22 pm

Hi Tuxie!!! It's good to be back, even if only for a little while. Too many things in real life to let my imagination run wild on the Blacklist.

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 2:34 pm

Tatiana - I didn't know you ever visited the Red as Katarina camp. I do think it's worth another look. If the bones are the real Raymond Reddington, Red could be outted as Katarina. I think Red does not want anyone to know he's Katarina because he thinks it would put both Liz and Dom in danger.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/10/2018 2:39 pm)

Tuxie400 · 2/10/2018 2:53 pm

Tatiana - As for Dom being Oleander, I always figured he was a spy, but an illegal in America. Maybe his codename was Oleander because poisons were his specialty. I do think whatever Katarina did to betray the Soviets put him, Constantin Rostov and Masha in serious danger.

2/10/2018 2:58 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana - As for Dom being Oleander, I always figured he was a spy, but an illegal in America. Maybe his codename was Oleander because poisons were his specialty. I do think whatever Katarina did to betray the Soviets put him, Constantin Rostov and Masha in serious danger.

That would be very reminiscent of the Alchemist.

Honey West · 2/10/2018 3:11 pm

Tatiana, good to see you!

Well, I am pretty much open to anything at this point in time. They have given us so many clues that could go either way and will depend on whatever they tell us next.

Oleander. My grandpa was a dairyman and there were oleander bushes here and there on his property. We used to gather grass and stuff from the other side of the fence to give to the cows as treats but grandpa always warned us to never feed anything from the oleander bush to the cows because it was poisonous! And we were not to even touch it! So I grew up with the idea of oleanders being deadly. It's an interesting choice of code name. Perhaps Dom was the head of an undercover assassination group? That might help explain the genetic predisposition of his offspring to turn into deadly killers at the drop of a hat. I still think he may be Red's real father. Of course that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms regarding that whole family relationship.

Tatiana · 2/10/2018 3:32 pm

Honey West wrote:
I still think he may be Red's real father. Of course that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms regarding that whole family relationship.

Yes, I always thought the way Dom and Red interacted was more like a parent and adult child. And y'all, that family dysfunction thing goes to a whole new level in this family!!!

lara1 · 2/10/2018 3:56 pm

Whoa ! Loads of great comments here

Just to weigh in on the Dom as Red’s dad - as some of you may know, I’ve thought that for a while chiefly because of 2 scenes:

- when they are putting away the groceries in the kitchen and Dom is cantankerous and acting out. Red says to him, you still have family. And Dom’s response - you see a look of hurt on Red’s face as Dom doesn’t consider him family. I think Red also has that hurt look when Dom leaves him standing at the front door, at the beginning of the scene.

The other scene is at the piano where Dom taunts him about wanting a hug. I don’t think that’s an in law thing, it seems to me more intimate.

Of course I can’t make this fit with the rest of the story. Yet lol. Although I did at one point think Dom was adoptive father to red. Not sure though. 😉