The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.12 - The Cook

2/01/2018 12:12 pm

Yeti-I wonder if Red had to cultivate a new tech person after he lost most of his business? And he ended up with the kid.

I agree that the repeated use of similar names gets confusing. I tend to think there are so many writers and limits on names that can be used that don't connect to real people too much. I know their script person talks about how she has to constantly run things through their legal department before they start shooting.

Big Badd Bazzer · 2/01/2018 12:28 pm

Red's associates are always the hi-lite of the show (for me). The tech guy was nifty - a young, more eager and more aware version of Aram if you will. Asian Momma was, in a word - FANTASTIC. Wouldn't mind seeing if she had some kind of super-power (deduction, analysis, face-reading, etc.) that could be utilized in the show. Wouldn't it be fantastic to see Momma, Samar, Glen & Elise work a mission??? lol

Tuxie400 · 2/01/2018 1:06 pm

I think the repeated names have to do with Bokenkamp's family and friends back in Nebraska. Just like Scott was his mother-in-law's maiden name, Kathy (Kathryn, Katarina, Kate, etc.) is his wife. His dad's name is Thomas.

I imagine all those folks who go to the World Theater in Kearney to watch The Blacklist cheer every time they hear their names.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/01/2018 1:07 pm)

2/01/2018 2:23 pm

Good point, Tuxie.

I like the girls they got to play Agnes. They aren't overly adorable, but look like they could be her child.

Honey West · 2/01/2018 4:17 pm

I think the bottom line with Red and Liz is that they don’t trust each other at all. Oh, they would save each other’s lives in a heartbeat, but they have a fundamental distrust of the others true motives. So they literally and figuratively dance around each other, like a couple of boxers before the first punch is thrown.

As time goes on I am more and more convinced that Red did not have Liz's memories altered to keep her from knowing his relationship to her. It was because of something that happened and that she saw during or before The Fire. Katarina came back to the motel saying "there were too many people there." Makes me wonder what was really going on. I don,t think it was simply to get Masha back from Raymond.

The exposure of the bones seems like it will expose Red's biggest secret of all his secrets. Garvey's note said WE know the truth. We? Well, we figured he wasn’t working alone, but is he the boss or just a soldier for that "we"? We could be anything from the Cabal or a similar group, to the government, to the group of people at The Fire or anyone at this point. But it would seem that finding and eliminating Garvey isn’t going to make Red or his secret safe. He’s going to have to,find out everyone who knows "the truth" and eliminate the threat from all,of them. The Blacklist could be getting a lot longer...

And I was looking at Eastcoast's great list and it’s interesting to see justbwho is what number on the list and how long those numbers have worked with Red or just how close they got to him. And how many seem to go back to Russia from#14 on down.

Tuxie400 · 2/01/2018 4:35 pm

Honey West - Yes, I also thought that We Know the Truth scared Red. It's more than Garvey that Red has to worry about. I wonder how large a group knows the secret now. How broad is the threat Red will have put down this time?

I think part of why Masha's memory was wiped was to forget her family and the trauma of the fire. But I do think there was something dangerous that she saw and heard that night.

2/01/2018 4:38 pm

Could Garvey be part of the Invisible Hand? Could Red have some connection to it or be a target of the group? Because the 'we' does sound larger than just Garvey. His goons just appear to be hired hands, not really important people. Maybe he is working with Oleander or an affiliated organization?

deadskie13 · 2/01/2018 8:16 pm

Honey West wrote:
Okay, gotta rewatch. I ended up trying to fix dinner while watching. Never a good idea. Wow, I was surprised at Red. He seemed to tell Liz a lot and was so emphatic in his not being able to tell her what his secret was. He looked pretty uncomfortable telling her that much. Yet, in the past Dembe has told him she deserves to know the truth. But did he mean the Big Secret or just the truth about him being Dad? Red’s in a pickle. If he isn’t honest with Liz then he will lose her. She might not just walk away, she could very well get herself killed trying to discover his secret. She was sounding a lot like Tom.

I figured that eye was a tracking device. Garvey's way of keeping track of Navarro. The question is when was it implanted? Did Garvey do it to use Navarro as bait figuring that eventually Liz would catch up with him. He seemed to have figured out that the way to find a Red was through Liz. I guess Navarro was some very elaborate bait. The whole thing made me think of Kate and that guys eye.

I didn’t quite catch that name about the fire, but I had the idea that they were talking about The Fire.

I think the story is getting more interesting with each episode, if that’s possible. Loved the hacker kid and his mom. They are at their best when they balance the darkness with characters like them.

Gah! This secret thing is tough biz! What I mean is, I can honestly see it going one of two ways: 01. Red's secret is so horrible, that it makes him out to be so unforgivable, that Elizabeth can't stand to even look at him anymore. 02. Red's secret is another one of those deals where it isn't so much his secret, but a secret belonging to Elizabeth, that could really mess her up.

I don't know. Part of me just keeps going back to the last five minutes of season two, when we find out that Red hasn't been keeping this fantastically big secret from Liz to protect himself--but that he's been keeping it from her to protect herself from her own memories. And so I kind of sort of wonder if we're going to get another one of those moments, what with Elizabeth's name being the tag on the suitcase and all--but then again, Red does seem to be pretty antsy about getting this suitcase back--so I keep going back and forth.

deadskie13 · 2/01/2018 8:53 pm

I think this episode was a good classic Blacklister, so to speak, and I think the cat they had playing Earl Fagan did a great job--especially when he kind of became intoxicated for a moment, just taking in the room that had been consumed by fire.

But before all of that, we have Lizzy telling Red, "That's why I went home. To find the truth." Every once in awhile she tosses something out that sounds like something I feel Reddington may have said at some point in time in his life--and that was one of those lines.

Samar working with Red, involves her partaking in tasty food stuffs, patiently waiting, and creating polite conversation--quite the contrast from Elizabeth, not interested in grapefruit gushers and the like, always ready to jump the gun, and brushing off half of what Red says.

Whatever Red needs Fagan for, it caused him to move the timeline up on his sentence by three years. Also, we have a "bad" guy wearing white.

Hidden messages reminiscent of the cult leader from a few seasons back.

The whole "You don't know or you can't say" line from Liz--the same deal she asked the old Russian guy when confronting him about Katarina.

Tadashi and his mom are a lot of fun! I hope they both stick around! :D I kind of find it hard to believe someone who appreciates movies and music and books as much as Red hasn't partook in Star Wars--I mean he periodically tosses out a movie or show that he's seen. However! This gives us a potentially great moment of seeing Red watch Star Wars with his new IT tech. ^-^

I don't like this deal where Elizabeth is giving Tom a free pass because he's gone, but shoving all of her anger onto Red because he's still here. I think this particular dance has gone on one too many times.

Also-also, she got ticked off at Red because he was right--they needed to back off, on account that they didn't have the upper-hand, and didn't know what the full deal was.

Claire definitely needs to work on her creep-o-meter skills.

Red is being honest. Let's back up for a second, Elizabeth: your Pops is being honest--you're just not digging what he's said. But, if you don't give him credit for being honest, then he doesn't have much of a reason to tell you anything else. This should be profiling 101--but I think the closer Liz gets to Red, the more blinded she becomes; she's less logical, and more emotional, and since she can't exactly yell at Tom, I think she's lashing out at the other important person in her life, that's standing in front of her.

Gah! Sad-faced, truthful Red! Top-notch acting, as always. ^-^

Agnes was wearing a tutu--reminiscent of Ballerina Girl, and all the ballet motifs.

Red saying, "I know how hard this is," brings home that he went through the exact same thing--maybe not in the same way, but the same thing. He had to step away for a great deal of time, and he's looking for that not to happen to Elizabeth with her daughter.

That being said, this was a fun episode--but kind of low key. Overall, I think this season has been a lot of fun! :D

Honey West · 2/02/2018 12:24 am

Great to hear from you, deadskie13! Yes, I noted many of those same things. Red didn’t manage to stay alive all these years by always going in guns blazing. He knows when to hold and when to fold 'em. Liz still needs to learn that a little better. She’s good, but she’s not quite ready to play the game at the master level yet.

Red has said that Liz is his way home, but I’m wondering if he will ever get there unless he either finds or tells the truth. I think Red and Liz are each others' blind spot. They really don’t always bring out the best in each other.

I almost didn’t recognize C Thomas Howell. It’s a long time since The Outsiders. I have a feeling we will see him again before the story ends.

Tuxie400 · 2/02/2018 12:42 am

deadskie - You made many good points. I think there was something that happened in the fire that Liz still doesn't know, and I think it ties into the suitcase body somehow. When Red warned Tom about the suitcase in in the Ilyas Surkov episode, he told Tom the truth about the bones might devastate Liz. Tom, and probably much of the audience, thought Red was just trying to get the suitcase back. But I think he's trying to protect her, as well as himself.

I didn't think Liz was lashing out at Red in this episode nearly as much as she used to in the past. I support her for calling him out on withholding information. And I'm with Dembe. Red needs to tell Liz the whole truth. Tom and Dembe thought she could handle it.

Tuxie400 · 2/02/2018 12:46 am

Honey West said, "Red has said that Liz is his way home, but I’m wondering if he will ever get there unless he either finds or tells the truth." I believe this is very much the case.

I think Red has not forgiven himself for something. And that, more than anything, is keeping him from being honest with Liz.

Tuxie400 · 2/02/2018 12:52 am

deadskie - Thanks for pointing out Agnes was wearing a tutu. I didn't notice that all, so I went back to look at some gifs of that preschool scene, and the skirt does look a lot like a tutu. Grandmother lets her dress like a ballerina, if she want to. LOL

Honey West · 2/02/2018 2:45 am

The rewatch was great! I just want to know why it’s taken so long for Garvey to make these moves on Red? It can’t be because Liz was in her coma and out of the picture - Garvey was the one who,ordered her killed. So it wouldn’t make sense that he needed her to get to Red. There must be something else.

If Tom thought that the secret would devastate Liz, he wouldn’t have been so eager to tell her what it was. I think either Red screwed something up,really badly and the bones are part of the coverup, or they will reveal his true identity or true mission. Whatever it turns out to be, I think it’s plain that the bones are way more dangerous to Red (or whoever he might be protecting) than to Liz.

Eastcoast · 2/02/2018 4:25 am

HW, we think along the same track. I had a tjought along the same line as this and just lost it!
It is 4:30 On the east coast!

2/02/2018 9:40 am

deadskie13 wrote:
I don't like this deal where Elizabeth is giving Tom a free pass because he's gone, but shoving all of her anger onto Red because he's still here. I think this particular dance has gone on one too many times.

Also-also, she got ticked off at Red because he was right--they needed to back off, on account that they didn't have the upper-hand, and didn't know what the full deal was.

Red is being honest. Let's back up for a second, Elizabeth: your Pops is being honest--you're just not digging what he's said. But, if you don't give him credit for being honest, then he doesn't have much of a reason to tell you anything else. This should be profiling 101--but I think the closer Liz gets to Red, the more blinded she becomes; she's less logical, and more emotional, and since she can't exactly yell at Tom, I think she's lashing out at the other important person in her life, that's standing in front of her.

Red saying, "I know how hard this is," brings home that he went through the exact same thing--maybe not in the same way, but the same thing. He had to step away for a great deal of time, and he's looking for that not to happen to Elizabeth with her daughter.

Great points, deadskie. I agree that Liz is so quick to blame Red and forgive Tom and that it's a bit of a broken record. What always drove me crazy about it was because Liz would get mad at Red for doing a similar thing for which she forgave Tom. Now that Tom is gone, she only has Red to take her anger out on. And I agree that the closer they get to each other, the more blinded they both get to a degree. Liz more so than Red, because he has always known the truth and had to keep his emotions in check for decades.

Now that I've rewatched the scene where Red tells her that he has a secret, I found her angry, but also heartbroken. Not just because Tom died over it but I think she had wanted to believe that he would want to be more honest with her moving forward now that she knows he's her father and told him she isn't walking away. I don't think she's naive enough to believe he would tell her everything, but that she would be brought into the circle a little more. Then to find out that Tom is dead, she spent 10 months in a coma, and is separated from her daughter because someone wants access to a secret Red has that he won't divulge to her had to be such a blow. And not just that he had a secret, but that it is so big he won't even tell her.

I made a gif set of the parallels between them with that part where he said he knows how hard it is and that she won't lose one more day with Agnes than is absolutely necessary. Because he has been there and, like you mentioned, he doesn't want her to lose an entire life with Agnes the way he did with her.

Tuxie400 · 2/02/2018 11:28 am

The Liz we have now has never been more focused on a goal. Her frustration with Red is very high, and I think she's still in the anger stage of grief. That anger spills over on Red. Trust has always been a complicated business between these two. But they've never been this honest with each other before. Red's told Liz as much as he can at this point. She's announced her intentions to him. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

lara1 · 2/03/2018 8:07 pm

Lots of great comments. I'm going to post further thoughts after I re-watch but three things stood out to me initially:

- the title The Cook, and the closeup of the flame on the gas range in the opening scene. Reminded me of when Liz set a fire in her kitchen while cooking over a gas stove. And I thought of the propane in Cape May. With the burns on the Cook's back, it made me think again whether Red's burns were the result of a gas explosion of some sort. and is that in fact the reason for the plastic surgery

- the photos of the burnt skeletons prominent in the first few scenes

- Agnes in her tutu. That was not a ballet class, as far as I could tell. Yet they had her wearing a ballerina outfit. parallel to the pilot of course. But what does it mean LOL.

Tuxie400 · 2/04/2018 12:25 pm

After rewatching the show, these are some of my thoughts:

1. Yikes! LOL I loved the Tadashi character - such a sweet little geek with all his trophies and his love for Star Wars. He is definitely my favorite of Red's new team members, far surpassing the likes of Heddie and Smokey. The juxtaposition of Tadashi and Red was marvelous. I do hope he and his dragon lady mom are recurring characters. Women who terrify Red are such a rarity. And in this episode especially, the dragon lady provided a strong counterpoint to the female victims of the Blacklister.

2, Tommy Wattles - If Blacklisters were ranked according to creep factor, Wattles would rank right up there with the Stewmaker and the Apothecary. The beginning sequence of stripping naked, dousing his body with flame retardant, and rigging an elaborate web of fire transport sounded the alarm. As he sat on the couch amid jars of accelerant strung like party lights and sipped a beer, he kindled my fears. But toasting the roasting of a woman - now that was creepy to the max. The reveal that he was a priest made the purfication-by-fire theme that much sicker. In the end, seeing Wattles light himself on fire ignited my horror at his own personal hell. And yet, this storyline just fizzled. Why? Because the woman in danger at the end wasn't someone we knew and cared about. If Samar, rather than Claire, had been the woman in danger, we would have been more personally invested in this storyline, and even more horrified in the end. The Stewmaker put Liz in danger, and the Mombassa Cartel put Ressler in danger from a creep in the woods. This episode would have rocketed to one of the most memorable if Samar had been the woman in danger.

3. Earl Fagen provided a variation on an old BL theme - a monster hunting monsters. He also served as an interesting way to showcase Ressler's character growth. Fagen will most certainly be a recurring character based on what Red told him at the end. Is Red planning to burn someone alive, and might that someone be Garvey/Damacus?

4. Connections:
Number 4 - While this number was unlucky for Red with the spiders, the number 4 was used religiously by George Lucas in the original Star Wars movie as a perfect number. Red was fourth on the FBI's most wanted list when he surrendered to the FBI. Was this a perfect number for Red, or the number, ultimately, of his death?

Webs - This is the theme that ties all the episodes' storylines together. First, we have Tommy Wattles who builds intricate fire transport systems from the ceiling that look like webs. Then we receive Red's gift of spiders and the Japanese folktale about the joro spider who is able to change its appearance to a beautiful woman who seduces men and binds them in her web before devouring them. There is also Tadashi, an expert on the Internet web. And, finally we have Liz trying to get to the truth of Red's web of deceit. Because Red has woven a tangled web - not just about the suitcase bones and Tom, but throughout the series. Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

The joro spider folketale reminds us of Red's love of shape shifters from Lady Ambrosia and, also of his connection to Katarina.

The scene with Red and Liz looking in on Agnes playing reminds me of Red's scene with Emma watching her son play soccer. And, although I never really believed Emma was Jennifer, the parallel made me consider that she was.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (2/04/2018 1:04 pm)

lara1 · 2/04/2018 1:09 pm

Tuxie400 - interesting observations. I do wonder whether the number 4 was another Star Wars reference given that the spiders were a gift to the whiz kid's mother.

I absolutely hear what you are saying about the victim's story not being built out, but I guess that didn't bother me as much as it bothered others. Why? Because I thought we were seeing it from the Blacklister's point of view - especially given the camerawork. He knew nothing about her yet she was a target just because of who/what she was. It could have been anyone - she was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Which is in common with a number of other "crime/victim" type procedural storylines. And for me, it didn't make it any less horrible. Although I do agree, it would have been awesome from a dramatic perspective,if it had been someone we knew.

Fagin, in Dickens' stories, collected children and taught them to GRIFT and PICKPOCKET. Interesting.

The webs - reminded me of the webs in the Cape May basement window....

The scene watching Agnes also reminded me of Emma watching the soccer game. I can't remember though whether Emma had regular contact with her son or not. I thought she had, but it still reminded me of that scene.

I am inclined to think that Emma is ballerina girl, or associated with her, given all the ballet clues around her in the episode that we discussed at the time. But somehow I don't think Jennifer is ballerina girl, so for me, Emma isn't Jennifer. But she could be! LOL

Last edited by lara1 (2/04/2018 1:09 pm)