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One of the interesting things for me about this episode was the memory issue that the man had, he could not remember anything after a certain point and could not remember what happened to his children. He was in effect still living in 1989.
Which is the year of the fire, and that and the tale of the two daughters with the two bunnies who sadly died in 1989.
And some of us have theorized whether Red has some kind of disorder or has had his own memories tampered with where he can't remember certain things that happened. Like perhaps what happened to his family.
This may mean nothing or these may be little breadcrumbs of clues. Maybe some are, and some aren't. But there have been so many parallels in each episode some of which may be clues. That's what I mean by the clues being a bit buried and we may not have enough to knit them together yet.
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Brittany wrote:
So Tom didn’t say anything about the DNA being run through CODIS. Do we think Red knows that? So was he saying that whoever has the bones already knew the identity or that they learned the identity because people started digging?
I think that Red thinks that the person who has killed Nik over the suitcase knows the identity of the bones and why they are important. And that no one can find out the identity and thus their value. that's what I understood, anyway....
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Brittany - I think Red was saying whoever has the bones does know the identity and knows how important they are to Red.
lara1 - I had that thought about two rabbits and two sisters too!
Tatiana - I agree with lara that the clues are in all the parallels we are seeing. I really don't think we'll get an answer on who those bones are until the end of the season.
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This is what I got out of the scene with Red and Tom in the car:
Red tells Tom that the person with the suitcase is eventually going to look for him (Red) and he's going to let himself be found and then he (Red) is going to kill the guy for his trouble and re-bury the bones so that they disappear in the sands of time (I'm paraphrasing).
I'm asking myself: how would Pete know to go look for Raymond Reddington? My tired brain answers: because the DNA ID's the bones as belonging to Raymond Reddington, so that leads back to the "Red as Imposter" Theory that we've battered around for quite a while -- Red is not the real Raymond Reddington but a US Naval/Russian/Whatever Agency creation.
And changing the subject: what was the point of Tom and Liz getting married at the end?
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lara1 - This story of a father being responsible for the deaths of his daughters without even knowing it made me think of Kirk telling Red, "Unlike you I would never hurt my own daughter."
In terms of the two girls theory (which is new to me and still confusing), what if Red and Carla had two girls (ballerina girl and bubble girl) and one died, thus the second girl? Because bubble girl is shown at the house and the height chart stops at age 3, which could have been when they had to leave the house. Ballerina girl would have been far older.
But I found the woman killing her husband at the grave of their daughters a bit foreboding. Perhaps Liz will have to do something similar? Prevent disaster or get revenge?
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Iowa Watcher - agree with you on how Pete knows. But I do think there is a bigger "someone" pulling Pete's strings. Looking back on that scene where he shaves his head, maybe that's not because someone tried to kill him but because he's a con man and just disappearing after his latest act. just a guess.
I asked myself the same question re Tom and Liz. Seemed forced and contrived. unless it ties in with what leads up to the fall finale.....
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Iowa Watcher - I think the point of having Tom and Liz get married at the end was another parallel - this time to Season 3. In that season, Tom was the first to propose, but Liz just wanted to have sex, like earlier this season. Then in Season 3 Liz proposes to Tom after he almost dies. This time it's after Nick dies and she's traumatized again in a cemetery. And, then like Season 3, Liz is the one who impulsively pushes for the quick wedding.
They said in Gregory Devry that there is no DNA in file for Reddington before he disappeared in 1990, so I don’t think it can be that. Again, I think if that were to happen (and I am very doubtful of imposter theory) it would be a series end type reveal because I don’t know that Liz would continue working with Red. She has forgiven a lot but that might be a bridge too far. And I don’t think Pete is looking for Red: I think Pete is working for Oleander who is looking for Red.
And I think the marriage thing is going to add strife all around when Liz learns Tom has been hiding things, put tension between her and Red a bit, and it would make it worse if Tom ends up dead this season.
IowaWatcher wrote:
This is what I got out of the scene with Red and Tom in the car:
Red tells Tom that the person with the suitcase is eventually going to look for him (Red) and he's going to let himself be found and then he (Red) is going to kill the guy for his trouble and re-bury the bones so that they disappear in the sands of time (I'm paraphrasing).
I'm asking myself: how would Pete know to go look for Raymond Reddington? My tired brain answers: because the DNA ID's the bones as belonging to Raymond Reddington, so that leads back to the "Red as Imposter" Theory that we've battered around for quite a while -- Red is not the real Raymond Reddington but a US Naval/Russian/Whatever Agency creation.
And changing the subject: what was the point of Tom and Liz getting married at the end?
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Brittany - I like your idea of the foreshadowing shooting at the gravesite of the girls. And match it back to the cemetery scene with Tom in the prior episode, you may be on to something.
On the two girls, speaking only for my thoughts (because I don't think Red and Carla were really married LOL), but in any event, one of my thoughts is that Red had an older daughter, the original Elisabeth. Whether or not she is the second girl seen in the fire memories (or maybe seen LOL), I haven't worked through yet.
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Tuxie400 - the other clue to the two girls I found interesting is the closet with the louvered doors, like at fire house, which was at the house where the two daughters (in this week's episode) lived and that ladder to the attic. And in the fire memory little Liz kind of escapes through an imaginary escape hatch of sorts into the Christmas tree lot...and then there is the attic we saw at Tansi Farms......
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Lara, I don't doubt that there is a larger "boss" of Pete . . . somehow the Cabal may fit into all this.
Yeah, I can't think of any way the marriage -- okay, re-marriage -- of Liz and Tom could fit into the fall finale.
It just seemed shoe-horned into the last three minutes of the show.
And I missed the "con of the week" -- Harold grabbing an unregistered gun and going rogue didn't do anything for me. We never got any real closure with the break up with his wife.
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As for the two girls, I need to think about that, but someone on another thread posited that one girl was the daughter of Red and K and the other daughter was from Red and Carla -- Sorry, I don't remember who wrote that!
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Brittany wrote:
And I think the marriage thing is going to add strife all around when Liz learns Tom has been hiding things, put tension between her and Red a bit, and it would make it worse if Tom ends up dead this season.
You're probably right about that!
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Tuxie400 wrote:
And, then like Season 3, Liz is the one who impulsively pushes for the quick wedding.
That's a good point, as well!
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Brittany #49 - there's an imposter theory that "naval officer" REddington is a completely fabricated identity done by the intelligence services. I won't go into the clues that may point to that, but its then possible that there was a real Raymond Reddington whose identity was taken and totally re-fabricated.
I tend to think two options: either the identity was completely fabricated, but no "real" Reddington ever existed; or, there was a "real" Reddington and Red is an imposter of that person. But I don't think a "real" Reddington who was not a naval officer ever existed. LOL
Brittany and Tuxie400- good observations on the wedding and the parallels too, I hadn't put that together.
And this was another episode with hardly any Red/Liz interaction. I miss seeing them together. But perhaps they are not being shown together as much now because they'll be spending a lot of time together in future episodes? I'm still hoping everyone has to go on the run. Hunting blacklisters from the shadows while avoiding the FBI et al. sounds like so much fun.
And Henry Prescott was shown in the credits on IMDB, but I didn't see him in the episode...did I miss something?
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Brittany, I didn't see Prescott at all, maybe there was a short glimpse of him and I missed it. but IMDB is sometimes wrong too.
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I agree about the Red/Liz interaction. And Liz has gone back to wearing less colorful clothes, at the same time that Red has inched back into his three piece suits and fedoras. interesting.....