The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.05 - Ilyas Surkov

lara1 · 10/26/2017 11:17 pm

HoneyWest - interesting take on that. I"m thinking that Caul is maybe behind it, or since Caul was a skilled operative, and Pete is nowhere to be found except in front of a mirror changing his appearance, a la Tom, maybe he is covert too. Doesn't explain the damaged hand though.

Well we are all circling around the same idea - so odds are its a variation of some shady covert person theme!

Patter · 10/27/2017 8:13 am

Thanks for clearing that up Tuxie! I had already forgotten about "Oleander". Well boo, now I'm back to speculating!!!

Tuxie400 wrote:
Patter - It was implied that Dennison (the guy Red killed who supplied the Oleander name) was the person Tom was supposed to call to confirm he picked up the suitcase.You are correct that Nik was pulled in by Tom and Pete was pulled in by Nik.

TheYeti · 10/27/2017 1:29 pm

lara1 wrote:
I continue to wonder whether the person who has the interest in the suitcase is the same person behind Liz's recent memory wipe. Learning stuff about Reddington, stuff that no one else can know.

I also continue to ruminate over Leonard Caul. this is going to sound like a really weird observation and my mind does move around in unusual ways sometimes! but someone somewhere posted a freeze frame of the hand around Nik's throat. The hand had what looked like scarring on two of the fingers where they meet the hand. Its the same hand I believe (left) where Caul lost his two fingers. I'm not suggesting that its Caul who killed Nik but I wonder if he's behind both the memory wipe and the suitcase. He didn't come across as a killer though just a very skilled operative. His job was to blend in.

Probably just some fanciful thinking! LOL

It would make sense that they hint at Caul's involvement in this specific episode. After all he was kind of a rogue CIA agent as well.

Honey West · 10/27/2017 3:02 pm

Caul had dealings with Fitch and whatever else Fitch was involved in. Fitch knew that Caul was the key to Red being able to a actually use the Fulcrum. Caul was CIA so deep that there were no records on him in any database, at least under that name. Did Fitch even know his real name? I can’t remember, do we know which intelligence branch Fitch came from? Did they say in The Decembrist? I always thought he had been CIA, but maybe not. I will have to look it up when I get home.

lara1 · 10/27/2017 8:47 pm

Megan's behind the scenes from today's shoot - does anyone else think that they may be back at Tansi Farms? or does that red building just look like the one in 4.22?

LOL like I need a reason to re-watch 4.22! haha

Last edited by lara1 (10/27/2017 8:47 pm)

Eastcoast · 10/28/2017 2:49 am

Yes lara1, first thing I thought too! The back of the Barn?!

Eastcoast · 10/28/2017 3:19 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
About the plaid, Tessa's theory is that it's not necessarily the person wearing plaid that's deceptive, but something in the scene is not what it seems. Tom is the deceptive one.

I didn't notice Liz's ruby slippers at all. I haven't seen the photo of Liz at Meera's grave. I guess that scene got cut.

Eastcoast - I agree with your questions about Pete. I don't think he's Nik's killer, but I think he was the one who moved Nik's body to the vacant lot.

I don't know who else would have moved It? He looked a bit beat up. His nose had a cut across it and the hand is a mess. Hard to tell what damage is done at this point until the bandages come off.

And now as east coast sits here in her plaid pjs she is going to try to go to sleep wondering what kind of deception could be around.....

10/28/2017 1:18 pm

So Red calls Tom from a different phone than’s Nik’s. I couldn’t remember if that was a confusion here or somewhere else but he dials the number on one burner phone while reading it from Nik’s phone. But why was Tom cautious when he answered? Was the number blocked? Has he been waiting for someone to call? Otherwise why the weird “Hello?”. I get the “who is this?” Question when no one says anything but he seemed off just looking at the display.

lara1 · 10/28/2017 7:01 pm

Brittany, I didn't catch that he had two phones and dialed from a phone other than Nik's (our smart Red!).
I don't think Tom had any idea who it was - I surmise that Red called on a burner phone he hadn't used before or didn't use all of the time, so that whomever he was calling would not in any way have any idea who it was.

That's my thought anyway. If he called on his usual phone, I think Tom would have known. I don't think Red wanted the person he was calling to have any way of knowing who was placing the call.

Last edited by lara1 (10/28/2017 7:01 pm)

Tuxie400 · 10/29/2017 7:41 pm

I think there's a lot about this episode that connects back to Leonard Caul. We've already talked about Pete's finger injuries as a callback to Caul's severed fingers. The phone call from Red to Tom reminds me of the call Red first made to Caul after locating his number in Fitch's safe. Both times Red is calling someone for information, but he doesn't know who. And the character of Dr. Nik was introduced in the Leonard Caul episode, so it's fitting he should be buried in an episode that makes us think of that blacklister. Osterman and Caul were both CIA agents and covert operatives who went off the grid and tried to reign in government agencies.

lara1 · 10/29/2017 10:14 pm

Tuxie400 #110 - yes, its interesting isn't it. I keep thinking there is a Caul connection somehow, even if he isn't connected to who killed Nik/took the suitcase and even if he isn't behind having Liz's memories altered two years ago. Somehow, its all possibly connected to what Liz discovered around the time that she met up with Caul in Red's flat......

Eastcoast · 10/30/2017 3:57 am

It all seams to remind me of Caul too.
I did re-watch and hit rewind several times to see if I could get a good pic of who killed Nik which I found difficult. It doesn't look like Caul to me. Seams younger. It really looked like Pete especially from the back. The hair looked the same.
There is only one shot of his face that is fast and I could not get a clear pic of it. Yet. I did get a pic of the back of him as they were walking away.
I was thinking they had to be a very very strong person to keep him in that position from turning around and keep a grip on his neck that long. Nik looks bigger than him but it could be the angle of the camera.

Maybe the Cabal is back...

Last edited by Eastcoast (10/30/2017 12:10 pm)

lara1 · 10/30/2017 9:52 pm

I'll put this here since this is the current thread - I re-watched 5.02-5.04 tonight and noticed some more parallels to prior seasons that I didn't previously notice.

In 5.03, there's the "cowboy" and some of his cohorts are dressed similarly to Mato. Then, and I can't believe I didn't pick up on this the first time around - the whole sequence of Red hearing the burglars has so many similarities to Cape May - from his being in the kitchen, looking out through a swinging door with a diamond shaped window in it (and how many homes have that kind of swinging door in the kitchen??), to the whole set up and lighting and staging and filming how they enter the house across the main sitting room which just so happens to have a fireplace with a chandelier hanging from the ceiling right in front of it and the staircase to the left to it); to Red gently knocking on the door to Dembe with the outer part of his hand like how he signaled through the wall to Katerina in Cape May; to how he distracts one guy while Dembe gets him in the living room, very much the way Katerina killed the guy about to hit Red in Cape May. Then, of course the bathtub scene - although a different scene, its a bathtub scene!

Still can't believe I missed that first time around! And second time too!

Last edited by lara1 (10/30/2017 9:53 pm)

Eastcoast · 10/31/2017 2:43 am

The first thing I thought of was Cape May when he knocked on that wall!

Tuxie400 · 10/31/2017 6:39 am

lara1 and Eastcoast - Wow! That's a lot of parallels to Cape May. I didn't notice any of them.

lara1 · 10/31/2017 11:58 am

Tuxie400, next time you happen to watch 5.04, if you do, check it out. You may notice more things. But its uncanny - the sitting room, viewed straight on, in dim light looks very much like the one in Cape May, although it is different. And they do a close up of Red knocking on the wall/door. I wonder if there are clues there that we don't see yet......

lara1 · 11/01/2017 5:17 pm

Finally got to re-watch the episode. At the end, there is a close up of Pete's feet and the black and white trainers he is wearing. earlier in the ep when they replay Nik being strangled, there is a close up of feet with black and white trainers. anyone notice if they are the same?

lara1 · 11/01/2017 5:17 pm

I realized I never posted the parallels between this episode and the Pilot.

The largest ones:

A chemical blast - in the pilot, Zamani's family was killed when his village was attacked with chemical weapons, which sets the whole plot line of the pilot into play

A dead person who isn’t dead - in the pilot, the FBI thinks Zamani is dead while Red knows he’s alive; in this episode, the FBI thinks Surkov is alive whereas Red knows he is dead

Serbia - they look for and find Surkov, or who they think is Surkov, in Belgrade; Zamani is a Bosnian Serb; the gang that kidnaps Beth (is the same as Pavloch Brothers?) is Serbian. (I didn’t catch whether Surkov himself is meant to be Serbian)

Pete’s girlfriend has a small tattoo beneath her hand which parallels Zamani’s small tattoo (which turns out to be the DC Zoo stamp) and pivotal in locating where the bomb has been set to go off
Additionally - the heart tattoo that Pete’s girlfriend has is located in the same place, on the same wrist, as Liz’s scar

The story of Oberman may income ways parallel Red - he goes “off the grid” for six years and is portrayed as a traitor
Interestingly he got his funding from a black ops slush fund that went missing - similar to how Red got his cash start?

Other stuff:

Red coaching Liz from the phone in the car to help her solve where the next event will take place, as he coached her in the pilot

When Liz goes to see Red towards the beginning of the ep, he is sitting at a table playing cards, and is situated in the same way he is in the pilot when Liz goes to see him in the hotel in a rage thinking he has harmed Tom through sending Zamani (at the end of a long table facing Liz as she walks towards him) . In the pilot he is doing a crossword; here he is playing cards but gives Liz the newspaper, saying there is a “riddle” for her to solve.
(The scene is also like when Red has summoned Tom in another ep to forbid him from marrying Liz)
Additionally, Liz asks Red if he hurt Nik, as in the pilot where she thinks Red hurt Tom and that’s why she goes to see him.

The CIA woman calls Surkov a “white whale”

Other interesting stuff:

The tattoos as Pete’s girlfriend describes them are based on playing cards.
Cooper says to Cox that Oberman was hunting the imposter (LOL)
Coco is an ENGLISH bulldog
Red talks about LUCY Cavendish who had a bulldog (Lucy Brookes)
Surkov is said to have detonated a SUITCASE bomb in Paris
More use of the letter C and K for names:
Lucy Cavandish, Cox, the CIA director, Kothari, Kevlar, Cyclone
Looking for Navy ships built with Kevlar, a class of ships called Cyclone (another storm at sea reference) -
the explosion blows up the Navy Yard
Liz/Oberman rifle scene like Ressler/Red scene in Kirk.
Oberman tells Liz that a BURN notice was issued on him.
False flag operations
Cox: “Time will tell”

Last edited by lara1 (11/01/2017 5:25 pm)

Big Badd Bazzer · 11/01/2017 5:32 pm

BIG FEAR TONITE - NOV. 1st

the networks (particularly CBS & NBC) might be running prior episodes of their signature shows - due to Game 7 of World Series from Los Angeles tonite.

Pity if it happens. I fear it will. Most networks suffer from low self-esteem vs. giant spots events. That's why nothing of note airs on opposing networks the night of the Super Bowl.

Hockey doesn't matter as much - its mostly Canadian and very regional in USA

Basketball Finals and NCAA Final 16 causes lots of programming switcheroos!

lara1 · 11/01/2017 5:41 pm

Thanks BBB - as of. a few hours ago, NBC had changed SVU and Chicago PD but was keeping TBL new episode. I guess we'll see. The downside is that the ratings will probably tank as a result but maybe they figure most of the viewership is on delayed viewing anyway, I don't know.