You know me and that scar! Always looking for it! 

I totally missed the part where he laid his gun down too. My husband was asking me questions and I was like, "now is not the time!!!" 

I almost felt like Dembe knew Tom was in the closet. Felt like he hesitated or took an extra 1-2 seconds before following Red out. 

I just wanted to say that Ryan Eggold did a fantastic acting job during the cell phone store scene! He really was able to turn on the emotion. 


I'm beginning to feel like Red is going to die maybe this season (possibly next) and Liz is going to take over (if she really is his daughter.....). We've heard a few mentions about criminal activity and she also wasn't upset with Red for the over the top robbery of Greyson. In fact, she played right into the part of being long con criminal. 

Honey West wrote:

Patter said: "Just watched the episode and noticed while Liz is flipping the coin and talking about Res being her father you can visibly see her scar (twice in the scene). Did anyone else catch this?!?! "

It's funny, I saw her scar, but I totally missed Tom's gun.

Actually I wasn't even really paying attention to her magic trick as much as I was remembering what Anthony Pepe said in that interview about the difficulty of keeping it attached. Probably kept popping off after she bent her wrist a few times. He said they had actually moved it from its original position just for that very reason - so it would stay on better.

East coast - thanks. I think it was the card I was remembering. A scene where she said magic. TBL - a magic trick, illusion, deception. And I always think of the scene with the mirrors in the truck in Redemption. That illusion worked perfectly, until it didn't...,

Honey West. Yes you are right about the K. The way Kaplan touched it though - made me think that if it's not KR  it's someone else close to Kate.

Anyone think it could have been ballerina girl in the suitcase?  I reckon she'd be about 10 years old.

Last edited by lara1 (10/06/2017 2:15 pm)

lara1- I too have also considered the possibility that she did commit suicide, especially if she believed her daughter was dead.  I wouldn't put it past Red to have faked Liz's death as a child to make KR think she was dead in an effort to keep her away and it resulted in her killing herself.   There are so many possibilities to this mystery!

lara1 - I found the story of Hero and Leander last night. I thought Red and Katarina's story might parallelt it. The poet John Donne wrote a two-line poem summarzing the myth:
Both robbed of air, we both lie in one ground,
Both whom one fire had burnt, one water drowned.

Maybe the person Tom is looking for is O. Leander. 

 

Tuxie400 #87 :

Both robbed of air, we both lie in one ground,
Both whom one fire had burnt, one water drowned.

Wow, thanks for that.  Its so on point with what we've discussed.  all the references in the show to the "elements", all the references to holes in the ground, people buried alive with limited oxygen, Liz deprived of oxygen in the box and of course the fire and all of the water and drowning references, including Red's lifeguard story and of course the story that Liz's father died in the fire and KR by drowning.

But, yes, how does it relate to the show more specifically?  
 

Last edited by lara1 (10/06/2017 10:49 pm)

Tuxie400 wrote:

:

Both robbed of air, we both lie in one ground,
Both whom one fire had burnt, one water drowned.

Is the real Raymond Reddington dead by fire?  And did Katarina drown?

From a metaphorical stance, it could speak to the unity of Red and Katarina in Elizabeth and her "death" (both robbed of air, we both lie in one ground).  It could also be speaking of their love for each other and how part of the other died when they believed each was dead. They were both in the fire (Red burned more severely) and KR may have believed him to be dead and felt like part of her died with him, whereas KR 'drowned' and Red may have believed that KR was dead ( he went to the beach where she disappeared after Liz died) and part of him died along with her. 

Watch us analyze this to death and it never comes about. lol

Oh yeah the other wild explanation I've explored for the above are 2 "Reddingtons". 2 brothers perhaps or maybe father/son. So we don't know which one when all KR keeps saying is Reddington". Out there, I know 😁

Brittany  #94 - Good point about the three sources not matching up.  I thought the journal went along pretty well with Red's story, but then Requiem threw a wrench into everything we thought we knew. Because of that, I don't analyze or spout theories as much anymore. I just wait and watch, and enjoy the ride.

Brittany wrote:

My dog got me up early and I couldn't go back to sleep so I rewatched this episode.  The beginning felt a bit slow and choppy, like we were just stomping through to get to the stuff we needed.  That happens sometimes. I don't know if it was the early hour or the contrasts between the levity of the heist and the scene in the apartment while Tom hid in the closet, but this suitcase feels more ominous than ever.   Like we are watching Pandora's box being opened at an agonizing pace. (Not to mention, the time in the BL universe from the season 4 finale to this episode is like less than a week?)  I have to admit I'm sharing some of Red's anxiety now.  And I feel like the task force is more and more likely to have to go on the run or something as the season progresses.  Samar and Aram seem to be the only ones without something darker lurking around the corners and they may get dragged into it by association. 

Red: He was a bit difficult to read this time. I think the tension of the missing suitcase is getting to him a bit.  The longer it is unaccounted for, the increased likelihood it gets to Elizabeth.  He only seems concerned about it getting to Elizabeth right now, but I have a feeling the longer it is missing, the more concern he will have about other parties being interested.  But he is on to Tom.  I don't know if he suspects that Tom has the suitcase, but he knows that shady dude has something going on.  No way Tom normally invites Red over for dinner, even if he is Liz's father, and then asks "so what have you been up to?"  This cat and mouse game is going to be fun to watch.  When Liz said that Red's plan was "cool" about robbing Blaise, I was unsure of what his reaction was to that because you can't see his expression once she gets in the car, only that he's standing outside of it looking at her.  I think he's torn between enjoying the fact that she's loosening up a little bit and worried about her getting too much into the black.  I tend to lean towards concerned because in that last scene by the pool, he was a total stone wall emotionally when she was talking about being afraid of being like him and that she's his daughter in more ways than she cares to admit.  The dynamics of this relationship are going to be absolutely fascinating as the season progresses. Something about Red killing that man in the apartment was eery.  We've seen Red kill a lot of times, but he feels darker than he was in the first three seasons.  I think Liz's death and Kaplan's betrayal broke him in some ways.  Sure he can be light-hearted, but is that to balance out the deeper darkness?

Liz: I like Tom has an operative and a character, but I don't like him as a romantic partner for LIz.  He was a total fraud, she tortured him, shot him, saved him, only to hold him hostage and torture him again.  Bananas even in this universe.  Anyway, not a fan of the relationship stuff.  Liz wore red (or some shade of it) in several scenes.  Her fun during the heist got away from her, and scared her afterwards.  I think her certainty about not becoming Red is waning fast.  Not intentionally, but I think she may start believing she can't overcome it and fall into it.  I noticed she was glancing at Red and Tom while they all drank wine and had their awkward question time.  I hope she becomes suspicious.  I get a little tired of Liz constantly being overprotected by the men in her life with their secrets instead of letting her decide things for herself.  I want her to take charge and demand answers, not get so wrapped up in her own anxiety that she's blindsided by the storm brewing.  

Tom:  He is cut from the same cloth as Red.  Thinks he has to protect Liz by keeping a secret instead of letting her figure out things for herself.  He just watched Red shoot a man, and is still digging into this.  Surely he knows that Red wouldn't hurt Liz (physically), but that he is treading on thin ice.  I don't think Red would kill him without good cause because Red loves Liz and Liz loves Tom and he wouldn't want to hurt her that way, but Tom is no longer Agnes's only surviving parent.  Red couldn't kill Tom in season 3 because he believed Tom was all Agnes had.  That's not the case any more.  The only thing saving him now is Liz's love, and even that may not be enough.  

Cooper: I've been suspicious that Cooper had some agenda going on, but after watching him again I am thinking that he has a problem that he's trying to keep quiet and that the scrutiny from higher ups may expose it.  I forgot that sometime in the next few episodes Cooper has a story arc about something personal that results in him being in the field with Red.   So perhaps Cooper isn't being as shady as I thought...though he's not totally off the hook yet.  I still wonder if Cooper's daughter comes up this season.  I feel like Red mentioning her being ill last season wasn't just a coincidence.  

Samar was on point.  Her skills at the party and the apartment and that comment about the dog were priceless.  

 

Aww, my dog isn't letting me sleep these days, either--good thing they're cute!  

I think what made this kill seem different, was the deal that it comes from a point of matter-of-fact desperation.  Red's ready for Kate's residual impact to be over, but she left such a dark patch in the road, that he can't get around it; she's still pulling the strings from beyond the grave, so it's like fighting a ghost.   It's also a lot like working backwards, in a lot of ways; instead of having all the puzzle pieces, and working towards a goal, Red has the completed puzzle at hand, and he needs to dismantle it--and quickly.  

I think Liz is falling in step with Red a little too easy a little too quickly, because we're all ultimately kiddos, seeking our parents' approval.  And figure most of us have parents that enforce things like order and structure and responsibility--but then you get a wild card parent like Red, who says stay up as late as you want, eat as much rubbish as you'd like, and just have fun!  And I mean granted it's in the context of an adult kind of world--but I figure the sentiment is still there. 

I think slowly but surely Elizabeth is becoming a more active participant in her life, as opposed to just letting things happen around her--or, at least here's hoping.  For me, her strongest moments are when she allows herself to be vulnerable; she does her best work when she trusts her gut.  It tends to be the over-thinking that gets her every time.
 
I agree that Tom is cut from the same cloth as Red--but at the same time, I think it's not a very clean cut, and so Tom is still pretty rough around the edges.  Figure he knows how to run a good game every now and then, but he's more about the immediate outcome, as opposed to the long-term goals.  For instance, someone who is thinking about living a long life, doesn't go around provoking Red.  

Cooper's kind of hard to pin down these days, since we've seen him act both favorably and unfavorably towards Reddington--and I think Cooper is a much more complicated character than to just say it all hinges on the Blacklisters Red provides.  So I think you're right; Cooper's personal life is going to spill over onto the Task Force in some kind of way.  It might be time for him to learn that being the boss doesn't mean he has to keep everything held together on his own.  Here's to hoping Aram gets left in charge of the Task Force for a day!  

lara1 wrote:

Eastcoast- the past couple of days I've been thinking that KR is dead though it would be great if she were not. Thats why Red talked to her "ghost" in Cape May. Its pretty clear, to me anyway, that she went into the water And maybe why there is a K on the tree, and why Kaplan looks at the ground when she says sorry before digging. How the bones got in the case we dont know. It would be a wild twist if Red thinks they re KR's but they are not. I have more on why i am thinking this way now, but im travelling and don't have my notes handy. Will add later. But yes the other options are still open too.

I'm under the same impression; I believe Katarina went into the water, and that those bones are not hers.  I believe the suitcase belongs to a vital character we have yet to be introduced to--maybe another daughter, or a relative.  I'm not set on anything just yet, though--there's still so many wonderful things up in the air, still.