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I plainly have some rewatching to do. Some potential car buyers came by and left just before 8, so I was scrambling to get some dinner and watch the show at the same time. Missed some things and never got settled in for a proper viewing.
But, all other things aside, Red cold-bloodedly killing Kate's guy like that. we've seen him kill like that before but this seemed worse somehow. He plainly lost patience and I thought the guy still was potentially question-able. But Red didn't wait, he just shot him. I didn't notice Tom's gun, but if it was there, then I know Red saw it. He sees everything, because his life has depended on this power of observation for so many years. So I think that he probably killed Dennison like that because he knew Tom was somewhere, watching, and it was to send Tom a clear message. If he saw Tom's gun and recognized that it was Tom,s gun, then Red knows that Tom has something to do with the suitcase. Maybe he's not sure what and needs to draw Tom out a bit longer until he can actually locate it. But he still needs to play it cool in order to not let Liz know anything about it. So I guess he needs to see what Tom has done and will do. Plus Nik will soon have the suitcase. (Or does he have it? I am confused between the episode and the previews).
Anyway, more later after a proper viewing.
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Honey West - I wondered where you were. I guess without Brimley's help, Red didn't think he could get the info out of Dennison and made good on his threat to kill him.
I just watched the ending again after his was mentioned and saw that. I figured Red knew something was up from Tom inviting him to dinner but now I think he knows what’s up. I wonder if Nik’s change of heart was his own or Dembe holding a gun to his head?
Eastcoast wrote:
I enjoyed this episode. Great comments from everyone.
Red really showed a deeper side of darkness to me. That suitcase has really brought out a different sort of evil in him.
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but Tom Left his Gun on the coffee table when he darted for the closet. When Red walked around Albert I think he saw it.
Tom asked him why he has the suitcase. It will be interesting to see who Orleander is!
Tom in the closet reminded me of Liz in the closet. Their lives parallel each other so much.
Off to some RL stuff!
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My two cents (or a $3MM penny) for two questions that have been asked, which I've also thought about.
1. Red is a master at manipulating situations. I think his cash has been drained for real - we saw Kaplan siphoning off his accounts with the help of his accountant, and the cash lock boxes. I'm not so sure she could sell off his assets - which include properties, works of art, things like his herd of stallions etc., unless she had a mega power of attorney. Not sure if she did for that, for legal documents. She had signing authority over bank accounts that Red killed but the accountant then helped her. We didn't see property disappearing. He may be avoiding places like the flat while he feels weakened and vulnerable, perhaps to attack, so the motel may be more than just a fiscal choice. Anyway to get back to my first statement, Red is a master of manipulation so it would not surprise me if he is playing all sides and keeping whatever assets he has remaining, to himself. I can see the "reveal" now - surprise!
2. the painting is interesting. I was thinking about that this morning. I need to re-watch to focus on Red's reactions again. IMO I think it was either a manipulation from the start (he knew the painting had been sold - interesting that they didn't say when - as Red brokered a "sale" of that painting not that long ago - wasn't it in Season 2?or was that the sale to the Parisian woman....wasn't it a wedding gift or something?). So either it was part of his con for his game plan all along, or I agree that the auction may have changed his game plan anyway - we weren't told why he wanted that penny - its important I guess, he tried for it at auction and then turned Blaise's entire estate upside down to get the penny (notice he left the rest of an entire book of rare, expensive coins). Need to look at that penny more closely...And there's a loose parallel there, of sorts, with the Stewmaker - when Red flipped the pages of the Stewmaker's book to find the one picture he was after....
Or - none of the above!
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Re the gun on the coffee table - I didn't notice that, good catch! If that's the case then I bet Red knew someone was in the apartment somewhere and may have reacted as he did in order to "send a message" to whoever it was. Who knows, he may have somehow got wind that someone else was after Dennison (did he try the cellphone trick that Tom did?) and left the guy in the apartment to set a trap as it were. Maybe not, just an idea. HW interesting idea that Red may know that it's Tom's gun. If Red recognized it as such, that throws a whole different cloak over things. Although I did think when I saw Red's expression at the "father in law" dinner, that he was on to Tom. Not sure he knows what, just that Tom is up to something.
It wouldn't be a huge leap for Red to put 2 and 2 together. Tom hates Red and Kaplan and Tom worked together. Maybe its not such a great leap to suspect him in any event.
LOL its getting very interesting indeed!
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Parallels with Season 1 - So I've been thinking about all of the parallels I've seen to the Pilot and Season 1 in general, in these past 2 episodes. The book with the coins and Red picking one, vs. The Stewmaker book of photos with Red picking one (and the books were like identical, plastic pages with individual pockets), has really got me thinking. wonder if we are going to see a whole bunch of things from Season 1 spin past us with a slightly different take this Season. And the scene with Tom/Liz very similar to the scene on the floor of their apartment in Season 1 (where they knock over the lamp and unbeknownst to them, they are being watched) But most of all, what does it mean? LOL
I hope its not something totally out there like a parallel universe, with the same things happening but differently. And does it mean that Tom "nice guy" Keen (who now seems to have no job except as spy for hire) is going to be revealed again as super bad guy. Maybe not.
I think they are building up to something big. 5, and epecially 7 and 8 have been billed as potentially turning the story on its head. I feel like this is a big re-set already but don't know where its heading.....TBC!
Last edited by lara1 (10/05/2017 4:50 pm)
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lara 1 - The painting Storm on the Sea of Galilee was first seen in Season 1 - Gina Zanetakos. Red was supposed to be sending it some guy named Hakim as a wedding present. But I don't think the deal ever went through. So I don't know how it came to be in the Parisian woman's apartment.
Last edited by Tuxie400 (10/05/2017 6:21 pm)
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Tuxie400 #67. hmmm. Red said he brokered the sale to her. So maybe it was after that. Pretty recently anyway. So maybe he knew she no longer had it.
On another topic, some folks over on Aly's page are discussing whether Nik is actually working with Red. That would make the "set up" in the apartment I was thinking about more likely, perhaps. And I wondered how the heck Nick knew about Dennison. We shall see. Can't wait to re-watch.
Last edited by lara1 (10/05/2017 7:45 pm)
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I don't know if Dr. Nik is working with Red or not. It does seem strange that he changed his mind about helping Tom. Will this tooth DNA be falsified, if he is?
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Tuxie400 wrote:
I wonder if Dennison's last word was a nod to the movie White Oleander. Suitcases come into play at the end of the movie where the girl, Astrid, turns her suitcases in art. She is last seen tending to her art; suitcases depicting all she has been through. As she passes them, she closes each, stating she will never visit the horrors they contain again.
Everyone posts such great stuff here!!
I just looked up White Oleander on Wikipedia. There are a lot of parallels with TBL: themes (daughter with questions about her past), names (Ray and Annie), even a comic book store (ok that's Redemption but close enough). And that's just from reading the movie's summary. Tuxie400 you're on to something!
Kind thoughts and well wishes to Everyone here...
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Eastcoast, are you kidding!!!! I was freaking out! I kept saying to my husband, he left his gun on the table! Red will see it! Tom is dead meat!!! I just couldn't believe that was missed!!! Seriously, I was having a heart attack!
Eastcoast wrote:
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but Tom Left his Gun on the coffee table when he darted for the closet. When Red walked around Albert I think he saw it.
Tom asked him why he has the suitcase. It will be interesting to see who Orleander is!
Tom in the closet reminded me of Liz in the closet. Their lives parallel each other so much.
Off to some RL stuff!
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Tuxie400#69 - interesting thought on the DNA....
I just listened to the BL exposed podcast. They picked up the similarity of the penny in the book to the Stewmaker as well! And they talked about the penny and how Liz held it etc in her outstretched palm.
Does anyone here remember - didn't Liz somewhere in Season 1 make a coin disappear from her palm and say something like "magic trick". Or am I mis-remembering? I was thinking, there is another parallel to Season 1....if that's the case.
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Colleen - nice to hear from you! Tatiana - I did not see that at all. LOL and I was watching it on a larger screen TV. I think I was distracted by the open white closet doors with the louvers - immediately thought of the fire memories and then Tom gets in the closet and looks out through the slats!
It makes me wonder whether he was the other child in the closet with little Liz OR (which is something I have thought about on and off) did Liz see something from that closet that we haven't seen yet. Was she screaming just about the fire - maybe so. But I go back from time to time to this idea I have that the reason Liz had to be protected was that she was a "witness" to something.I've also wondered whether she saw what happened to Red's family (he told her she has the answers he needs). Just some idle speculation! (what's new lol)
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Just watched the episode and noticed while Liz is flipping the coin and talking about Res being her father you can visibly see her scar (twice in the scene). Did anyone else catch this?!?!
lara1 wrote:
Tuxie400#69 - interesting thought on the DNA....
I just listened to the BL exposed podcast. They picked up the similarity of the penny in the book to the Stewmaker as well! And they talked about the penny and how Liz held it etc in her outstretched palm.
Does anyone here remember - didn't Liz somewhere in Season 1 make a coin disappear from her palm and say something like "magic trick". Or am I mis-remembering? I was thinking, there is another parallel to Season 1....if that's the case.
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I noticed they were showing the scar.
You might be thinking of Liz with Toms keychain. I think she was changing the battery. He grabbed her hand and it was gone!
She has also done it with cards.
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Patter said: "Just watched the episode and noticed while Liz is flipping the coin and talking about Res being her father you can visibly see her scar (twice in the scene). Did anyone else catch this?!?! "
It's funny, I saw her scar, but I totally missed Tom's gun.
Actually I wasn't even really paying attention to her magic trick as much as I was remembering what Anthony Pepe said in that interview about the difficulty of keeping it attached. Probably kept popping off after she bent her wrist a few times. He said they had actually moved it from its original position just for that very reason - so it would stay on better.
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Tatiana,
I was holding my breath and gasping at the same Time!
I'm wondering about Tom saying he had set 4 plates because everyone he sees him Dembe is with him.....
This is an example of how I feel the 3 of them bring something to the show. Tom keeps Red on his toes and vise versa.
Last edited by Eastcoast (10/06/2017 12:35 am)
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I keep an open mind about who the bones belong to because it would be interesting if Kr were alive.
But I can't imagine them being someone other than Kr if there was a K on the tree, Mr. K saying she is sorry to her, Dembe telling Red, "I don't think Elizabeth will ever be ready to learn what you did to Katarina." And Red telling her he was sorry in the Cape May episode.
( not to mention looking like a mad man with an axe in Cape May)
Mr. K was well aware of all the things that went on with Liz and her thoughts about her mom. I think that she felt if Liz knew her had hurt her mom for whatever reason it might fall under that unforgivable category.
I was thinking about the part where Kaplan was telling Liz she loved her mom and Raymond. So I went back and looked at that again and it did seam like she spoke about her in past tense.
Did anyone else get that impression?
Unless we can get some more evidence from the good Dr. Saying otherwise or another reference I don't see how it can be someone else.
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Eastcoast- the past couple of days I've been thinking that KR is dead though it would be great if she were not. Thats why Red talked to her "ghost" in Cape May. Its pretty clear, to me anyway, that she went into the water And maybe why there is a K on the tree, and why Kaplan looks at the ground when she says sorry before digging. How the bones got in the case we dont know. It would be a wild twist if Red thinks they re KR's but they are not. I have more on why i am thinking this way now, but im travelling and don't have my notes handy. Will add later. But yes the other options are still open too.
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Of course, how do we know the K on the tree is for Katarina? It could be for Kate or even Kaplan. Doesn't mean that what was buried there doesn't have anything to do with Katarina, as it obviously does because of what Kate said "Sorry"...but just thought I'd throw that idea into the mix.