The Blacklist Refugees » The Suitcase

lara1 · 12/10/2017 10:27 am

The other thing would be that there was no apt number on the address. But then again im not sure it was needed. Its not like it was going to be mailed at the Post Office. Lol

Last edited by lara1 (12/10/2017 10:27 am)

Tuxie400 · 12/10/2017 2:20 pm

Eastcoast - You're right about the size of that 525 address when the Keen's are carried to the car. It may be a serious clue that the suitcase tag address is not that of the Keen's. Here are the addresses we know.

Suitcase tag: 83501 Allison St. NW
Keen's townhouse from Season 1: 8112 12th St.
Current apartment: 525 something

Tessa the BL Theorist thinks the address could be the row house where the fire happened in Liz's childhood (per Requirem). She makes a good point about a Google search on Allison St. pulling up a photo of row houses. But as lara1 points out, the fire footage from Requiem shows more contemporary row houses, while the Google photo shows much older row houses with third story attic windows. Even so, there is a possibility that this is what the address is.

It also seems strange that Tom wouldn't have investigated the address if he did not recognize it. But maybe that's a plot point needed to drive the story forward after the break. I propose that the address belongs to the mysterious Oleander, who will eventually provide some insight on the contents of the suitcase. Why introduce Oleander and not have him show up later?

Then how did Garvey know where Tom lived? I don't think Ian even knew Tom's last name. Is it possible he was tailing Red/Dembe/Tom when they stopped at the gas station and he saw Tom escape, tailed him him to Union Station and then home? That would take some expert tailing for neither Red nor Tom to notice. Even if Garvey had put a tracking device on the suitcase, he would have lost the bones the minute Tom transferred them to the duffel bag. Could Garvey have access to Satellite tracking like Halcyon employed? I wonder if we'll ever find out how Garvey located the Keen's apartment. Maybe this is something Red and Liz will discover in their investigation.

lara1 · 12/10/2017 4:08 pm

Tuxie400 - I agree that the address could be something other than the Keen's current address but its weird if it isn't. I wonder if Liz moved Agnes out of the old apartment before Tom got back, because Kaplan spooked her. I don't know I'd have to re-watch that ep and the Season 5 apt. Its one explanation why Tom doesn't follow up on the address. Which I think is weird that he didn't if its not Liz's address. I don't think we were told that the Keens had two addresses - one in DC, one in a suburb outside of it. But the thing is, if its not a Keen address, then it could be almost anything, and I'm not sure we have any info at all as to what it might be.

I don't know about the address being fire house. The news report on the TV in Requiem said that the buildings were "downtown" and I don't think that area of DC would be considered "downtown DC" but maybe it is. And it was more modern in construction. Plus, wouldn't that house have burnt to the ground? So what would be the significance of putting that address on the tag? Well, here was the place where fire house was....I'm not sure that gives any real info to Liz. She knows there was a fire.Not sure what great secret that would expose. But anything is possible. Its just that the facts we know don't add up. But what is new, LOL.

Eastcoast · 12/15/2017 3:26 am

The first thing that had come to my mind was he took his wallet to see who he was. It would also have been easy enough to look in his car at the registration. I didn't think it was the address on the tag as soon as I saw the Huge number on the building in our face.

I have been trying to catch up on some reading. I have seen in a few places on-line people think Tom shouldn't have said he had a wife and child. I wish he didn't either and I would like to think we could all do that under the same circumstance in real life. As far as anyone saying they had a family as a reason they didn't want to die is normal. I know this is a TV show, but in real life if you were in that exact situation (let alone all he had just been through) and wanted to convince a person you wanted to live and had to make it a good one because you have about one second to speak it might just blurt right out of your mouth. People have been known to say that they had family and they didn't have any family at all and were trying to get mercy from a killer. We really do not know what we will do in a life and death situation.

Eastcoast · 12/15/2017 3:34 am

Oh, the only people I can think of who could be in the suitcase that would matter to Liz are:
KR, Jennifer, Naomi, (their Dna could have been in the system?) another Raymond (because his DNA was not in the system) or another Sam. I say another Raymond because at this point if he is an imposter and changed his name then that is who he is for most of his life. Not sure how imposter Sam would work into things but who else does Tom know of? It has to be someone that Tom would have know about.

Tuxie400 · 12/15/2017 9:59 am

Eastcoast - I guess Garvey could have taken Tom's wallet or the car registration to find out his name and address. But because we didn't see it on screen, I didn't consider it. That makes sense.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/15/2017 10:28 am)

lara1 · 12/15/2017 11:33 am

Eastcoast-good point about the wallet. Easy enough

I dont know about the wife and child thing. Tom was a trained operative and worked for the CIA too. But he was not being tortured and as you said he had like one seond to say something, anything to avoid a fatal gunshot. So in my mind, at that instant he could have decided he was of more use to Liz alive than dead so if that would help him stay alive that would be it

interesting though that Garvey was killing people to get to Red. So that suitcase has to give him a lot of power over Red. Since Red seems puzzled by why the suitcase is so important to someone else, its possible Red isnt fully aware of it yet. Like iwith Berlin and the the Decembrist
The other puzzle to me remains that the most likely suspects for who is in the suitcase - most likely died before CODIS was put together. So how are any of them in there?

A real wild card would be KR's mother, whom we havent heard about at all. It could be why Kate apologized to KR before digging up the bones. But I think thats a longshot at best and no idea why possession of that would be enough to hold Red hostage as it were. The only thing ive more or less concluded is that the bones do not belong to anyone Red cared about on a personal level.

Eastcoast · 12/15/2017 11:48 am

What I was thinking is that since the car was towed then the guy at the desk that Liz and Ressler talked to knew who it belong to. It would make sense since he said he couldn't say and wanted a warrant that he had already given that information to Garvey.

Last edited by Eastcoast (12/15/2017 11:49 am)

12/15/2017 3:53 pm

Anytime someone in the Blacklist says the know everything, they don’t know everything. Some times they know very little. So what exactly Tom knows could be very little.

Lara- I’m curious as to why you believe the person must have died prior to CODIS. I tend to think they died post CODIS or at its very earliest days (mid 90s).

lara1 · 12/15/2017 5:12 pm

Brittany - the most likely suspects for me of who might be in the suitcase are KR, the "real" Red, Liz's "real" father, Red's "other" daughter - the first "Elizabeth", or ballerina girl. Though at the same time, I don't think its anyone that close to Red. Anyway, with this list of characters, the series has either told us, or heavily hinted, that they met their demise in early 1990 or earlier. We've had little to no information on anything like that happening in the mid-90s or later and in fact we have very little info at all about Red during that time. And if its an unknown body whose DNA was used by Red or someone else to fake that of someone else, I think that would have been pre-mid 90s also.

Of course, the bones could be anyone. And if the bones belong to someone we don't know, they could date from anytime, though they were sufficiently degraded at the point they were buried. But that doesn't rule out the mid-nineties. That's just my take.

12/15/2017 7:42 pm

Okay. I thought that maybe I had missed something about the bones age.

Eastcoast · 12/19/2017 3:02 am

As you know I have been working on this suitcase.
In the bottom left corner was something really bugging me! I am of course using the first set of bones we saw. I think it was lara1 that said she saw what I was talking about but couldn't make it out either.

I think it is a shoe!! I think it's a woman's shoe! Looks like a flat but it doesn't show the bottom of it. May I also say I think there is a foot in it!
I tried looking at Cape May but im exhausted and couldn't finish.
We need to go back and see what shoes KR wore in that and The Requiem.

<img src="https://image.ibb.co/hb3HvR/Blscshoe2.png" alt="Blscshoe2" border="0">

<img src="https://image.ibb.co/irtZaR/Blscshoe.png" alt="Blscshoe" border="0">

Eastcoast · 12/19/2017 3:03 am

Please excuse the arrow from my tv in the second pic.

😴😴😴

Last edited by Eastcoast (12/19/2017 3:04 am)

Tuxie400 · 12/19/2017 10:31 am

Eastcoast - I didn't see anything in the first photo that looked like a shoe to me. But wow! I definitely see a shoe in the second photo where you've blown up the photo. It could be a flat or a heel. It's hard to say.

lara1 · 12/19/2017 10:49 am

Eastcoast and Tuxie400 - OK, I don't want to get anyone excited, but I went back and looked at the case as seen in the Garvey episode. Its open facing the camera. If you look carefully, there is something very slim hanging over the edge of the case (left hand side)- like a shoelace (could be maybe) and if you look really carefully you see that where it seems to come from in the case, may be 2, maybe 3 eyelet type things (like on a shoe or boot maybe). you can just make out these kind of round shapes with kind of eyelet things on them.

Of course, my mind may just be playing tricks on me because when I think back to KR, I think she mainly wore boots, ankle or otherwise. But a boot may also be a man. And, quite possibly, its just a scrap of fabric and not a shoelace. I would never have made a shoelace connection without Eastcoast's post.

Eidted to ADD: OK, scarp that idea. that thing I saw is actually part of the case. In the light it looks different. But there is something in the case that may have an eyelet on it, like a shoe. LOL

Last edited by lara1 (12/19/2017 10:59 am)

Tuxie400 · 12/19/2017 10:54 am

Eastcoast - I skimmed through Cape May. Katarina was wearing either a navy blue or black pump with a chunky heel of about an inch and a half.

In Requiem her only visible footwear is a brown boot with a rather high heel. It's the kind with a zipper on the side.

In your photo, the shoe looks like it would have been light in color, and perhaps it faded over time. Jolene wore taupe or beige shoes at one point. So did Liz in T. Earl King, and I think Josephine did in Alistair Pitt.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (12/19/2017 11:22 am)

12/19/2017 1:38 pm

I looked at those photos and it does look like it could be a shoe. What it first made me think of was a ballet shoe. There looks like ruffled material around the edges (if you look towards the left side of what we see). I can't quite tell what is supposed to be there on the right end. It looks block-like...a heel? A sole?

Eastcoast · 12/19/2017 3:37 pm

Tuxie, it really does make a difference when you blow it out, then sharpen over and over but I'm glad i did It. It was driving me crazy what was in that corner. Lol

Thanks for looking at those episodes to check the shoes.

Lara1, that's ok. I appreciate your eye on things!!

Brittany, I thought that too. I do realize it could be that it has shrunk from moisture over the years and ruffled at the top. It looks very faded to me but I did have to lighten this picture to see what it was. So it could be a dark shoe. It could be any type of shoe because what I see is the bone still on the shoe. I think the feet were cut like the other parts were. When i turned the picture vertical is when it really showed.

I'm going to work on it some more when I get time.

It's a bit gruesome but you can see what feet look like in shoes online. There have been some washing up over on the shore of Canada and some other places. They have pics of those on there.

Anyway, back to RL for now.

Tuxie400 · 12/19/2017 4:10 pm

Brittany - On Eastcoast's photo, my first thought was ballet shose too. But I think that's because it looked white.

lara1 · 12/19/2017 6:22 pm

Brittany - I actually saw the reverse, but it could be either way. I see what looks like it could be a very flat heel on the left side. But equally it could be the front of the shoe. Ballet shoes typically don't have ruffles, rather a kind of elasticated band around the inside parameter but what looks like the ruffle could be that, the inside parameter band disintegrated/deteriorated. Of course it also doesn't mean that no ballet shoe was ever made with a ruffle.

typically the shoe would have the ties attached toward the back. I could not make out any trace of that at either end but having said that, its very hard to tell. I don't know but my feeling is that the shoes would not have faded in color from a darker one because of the leather process (if the shoes are not ballet shoes). And of course KR (the real KR) was a dancer. I don't think we're ever told that she danced ballet though Liz did dream that she did.

I wonder if there is a clue to what Kaplan was wearing when she fell to the ground after being shot? Then again she mainly wore sensible pumps! The bones in the suitcase had been exposed to a lot of deterioration in the air. My guess (and its just a guess) was that the person was either killed in the outdoors (maybe the woods) or the body was brought there and left exposed.

Last edited by lara1 (12/19/2017 6:28 pm)