The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.01 - Smokey Putnam

10/02/2017 8:07 am

I keep going back to that TV Guide interview Bokenkamp gave last week after the premiere. This part especially interested me: "Bokenkamp: I think Tom decides not to tell Liz about the bones because she has information that even Mr. Kaplan wasn't aware that Liz would get. Mr. Kaplan had no idea that it would be revealed to Liz that Reddington is her father, and that changes everything." He goes on to say it brings Liz and Red closer together, but I feel like it must mean more than that. I would think that if this secret were meant to drive her away from him that the revelation of a father-daughter relationship would only boost the impact of the suitcase reveal (whatever it may be), making it even more likely that she would leave and never come back to him. To me, it makes it sound like the paternity results would interfere with Kaplan's plan? But I don't know how...
There entire interview for context:
http://www.tvguide.com/news/the-blacklist-season-5-premiere-tom-returns-bones-suitcase/

lara1 · 10/02/2017 10:00 am

HI Brittany, I think his statements are unclear. The sentence about it driving Liz and Red "closer together" I think may refer to the paternity results and Tom's reaction to it. It could mean that Kaplan did not anticipate the paternity results in the same vein as she did not anticipate Red using Hitchens and the Reven Wright reveal to derail Kaplan's grand jury plan. So does it mean that the paternity reveal is meant to derail the suitcase reveal? I don't know, its unclear to me. But if that is the case, that plays into the idea I wrote about above, that Cooper had another purpose in the reveal and/or possibly colluded with REd. But that is pure speculation. It may be something entirely different. And in the same light, I wonder whether Tom is just worried, or suspect of the paternity reveal.

In the meantime, 2 days to go for ep 2!

Last edited by lara1 (10/02/2017 10:01 am)

Patter · 10/02/2017 1:28 pm

I noticed the bone color was different too. Thought that was really weird.

Brittany wrote:
The rib cage is something I noticed right away. I also noticed the color was different. The bones at the finale were more brownish where as these are more gray/dusty.

Eastcoast wrote:
HW, The skull has changed Drastically in my opinion. It's all different. The forehead, the nose, and eye sockets... The rib cage too like you mentioned.
I'm going to post a close up of both skull.

The one from last season is a better one. It's been hard to get anything really good of this new one and I haven't had time to sharpen it or anything.

Patter · 10/02/2017 1:38 pm

I'm trying to connect Tom's Flashforward with Red and/or bad guys coming for the suitcase. But in the back of my head I also remember reading somewhere that Tom's "Redemption" story line will be wrapped up in the Blacklist series. So my guess is Red & Dembe are on the way to Tom & Liz's to try to get the suitcase from Tom (how do they come to that conclusion, I don't know) and find that Tom already has visitors. Red and Dembe kick a little butt outside first before entering the apartment to find Tom beaten up. They then confirm Tom has the suitcase, where it goes from there, I'm not sure. I haven't rewatched S5 ep1, so I can't remember if Red shoots at Tom while he's lying on the ground (I could be imagining that?).

Tuxie400 · 10/02/2017 1:47 pm

Eastcoast - I agree with you. The skull looks very different. That indentation above the nose that Honey West thought was from a gunshot is missing. And the color of the bones is more white and gray on this one. But it could just be the lighting in the scene.

Tuxie400 · 10/02/2017 1:55 pm

Deadskie - You packed a lot into your driveby post! So sorry to hear about your mom and your dog. My mother was in and out of the hospital all summer too, and she passed away unexpectedly in rehab last month.

lara1 · 10/02/2017 4:36 pm

deadskie13 - it was so nice to hear from you! sorry though to hear about your Mom and your dog.

Tuxie400 - Very sorry to hear about your Mother.

lara1 · 10/02/2017 4:39 pm

Patter #104 - I think its hard to tell who Red is shooting at - they burst in through the door of the apartment firing straight ahead, then we see Tom on the floor, and it looks like Red is looking down and/or his gun is pointing down, but that could be the way it was filmed and the camera angle. It could be Tom's view of Red (i.e. Red is pointing the gun at him) or it could just be an odd camera angle, and the whole thing is probably edited anyway, so even if Red is pointing that gun at Tom, it could be after Red has just shot someone else and it merely looking at Tom (to assess if he is OK). It will keep us wondering for sure!

lara1 · 10/02/2017 9:55 pm

So, I did one last watch of the episode before the next one airs, and I picked up on a couple more themes/symbols we've discussed here:

Red counts down 3-2-1- for the second time in the episode - when he tells the skinhead lead to take the money and leave or he will shoot him. the numbers 3 and 21 again

In the pool, the steps Red is lounging on are red and the sign right next to him reads, 3 feet deep. (yeah its a pool but he's filmed right next to that sign)

Red talks to Tammy Lynn, who is wearing a RED sweater and the derivative of Lynn means "lake". She says to Red that Smokey never knew he had a sister; and Red responds that his sister has been looking for him for 15 years, and he"s been working for the law firm for 36 years

Smokey got into the situation he was in because of CARD games.

The skinhead car that pulls up to the car with Red, Liz and Smokey - close up of the lower windshield and another 12/18 registration sticker......

The locker above the one with the suitcase is #37, so with the one next to it being 35, the locker probably is 36. They could have used any numbered locker....but chose 36.

So here is something odd: someone on this thread previously mentioned that they had seen the two guards in the prison transport vehicle (the ones on Red's payroll) in a previous episode. The one who Red calls Scott, I'm almost certain is Danny from prior episodes ("Yes, boss"). So why does he have another name now? Tuxie400 - maybe another instance feeding into one of your theories? Or I could be wrong.

Well it was probably obvious to everyone else but I didn't exactly get why Red could really use a guy like Smokey. But I fully realized on the re-watch that Smokey was the (fictional) operations lead for the Barnum and Bailey circus - managing the logistics of basically moving an entire small city around from place to place. Not unlike shipping operations......and Smokey is smart. I actually think he's very smart. That conversation with Red and Liz when the car breaks down - he has the situation and the people figured out as well as the logistics. I think that is when Red really started to hatch his plan to get Smokey surrendered to the authorities yet freed to work for him. That's my thought, anyway.

Less that two days to go!!! yay. hopefully I'll get to comment with you all this time.

lara1 · 10/02/2017 10:16 pm

Oh yes, I didn't think much of Red's look when Aram gave Liz the news that Cooper told the task force about Reddington. I just think Red was listening generally to get the latest update from ARam - he looked up in the same way 1-2 other times while hot wiring the car in that scene. If its the case he was non plussed, it could just be that's what he expected.

Also I read some comments somewhere else how Red said that the Wagoneer smelled like "Dad's car" and not "my Dad's car". I don't think there is much of a difference in that situation, however, that he said "Dad's car" to Liz could point to the Red as Liz's older brother theory. A slip of the tongue? And we've had some discussions on these pages about misleading DNA results, and how a brother could show as a father and the chimera effect. Some of us said that Red could be the older brother of the real Reddington (at least I did at one time, LOL). anyway there you have it. I'm not saying I believe it, but it is a kind of explanation. As Tuxie400 has said, something for every theory in this episode! LOL

Last edited by lara1 (10/02/2017 10:18 pm)

Honey West · 10/03/2017 12:29 am

Nice to hear from you, deadskie13! Hope to hear more as you get time.

Eastcoast, yes, I thought the skull looked very different, too. But I keep figuring it's the lighting, the angle, and they got jumbled around in the suitcase. We're actually seeing more of the skull this time, and it looks small to me. Seems to have some reddish fluff on it. But I need to rewatch and haven't had a chance to do that yet.

My take on Tom's flash is that he is realizing just how dangerous that suitcase really is. I was thinking that Tom was actually being rescued by Red. Maybe somebody else got to the suitcase and took it. If that's the case then Tom might be the only one who knows where it went, or at least, who took it. Red would want to know that information, so he wouldn't kill Tom.

IowaWatcher · 10/03/2017 6:51 pm

Somehow I missed the "Red as elder brother" theory, but I like it.

Maybe Tom's role will be reduced to short scenes where he is out hunting for the stolen bones.

I hate to admit that I've re-arranged my life for a TV show, but I have, at least for the moment. I hope this 7:00 pm CDT broadcast time gets moved later after the midterm break.

Big Badd Bazzer · 10/03/2017 9:33 pm

Obviously Spader is and will always be the lead male on TBL.

But who is #2

Last year it was obviously Tom (based on the spinoff series and his semi-triumphant return) with Amir a close 2nd.

This year, based on the season debut its Don Ressler - Aram basically had nothing to do.

I suspect Tom & Aram will end up vying for the #2 w/ the great character actor Dembe vying for the next spots with Donald (Diego) and Harold.

Or they could spread the work out evenly - as the show-runners usually end up doing!

Eastcoast · 10/04/2017 12:42 am

It isn't just lighting or angle. The first one looked liked an adult male. This one looks young female to me. It is smoother when you look at the forehead. The nose is smaller. The eye sockets on the first one are deep set. These are not. I hope we get another look tomorrow night.

10/04/2017 7:56 am

My prediction on the suitcase is that it will be analyzed as a Caucasian woman in her 30s dead for 20+ years that we are supposed to think is KR.

It’s a rainy day in my part of Indiana. I may not catch the live show tonight.

Excited to see Dr Nik come on board as part of the suitcase sleuthes. He may have survived faking Liz’s death but I question if he survives This.

Patter · 10/04/2017 8:49 am

Brittany, it's clear in my part of IN at the moment, but we are supposed to get storms this afternoon/evening. I also watch OTA and my antenna picks up either NBC out of Indy or Louisville (typically Louisville comes in better), but if it's raining it will be a scrambled mess, so I may not get to view until tomorrow night or this weekend. Plus I have school aged kiddos that are still awake at 8, so I have to bribe them into watching their kindles in another room if I watch anything besides HGTV or FoodNetwork at the 8pm hour. However, I can't resist spoilers, so I'll be reading everyone's thoughts tomorrow morning. Happy Red Wednesday y'all!

Brittany wrote:
My prediction on the suitcase is that it will be analyzed as a Caucasian woman in her 30s dead for 20+ years that we are supposed to think is KR.

It’s a rainy day in my part of Indiana. I may not catch the live show tonight.

Excited to see Dr Nik come on board as part of the suitcase sleuthes. He may have survived faking Liz’s death but I question if he survives This.

lara1 · 10/04/2017 9:32 am

I didn't see all those changes in the bones, but they were jumbled together in the prior episode. Well I guess its more down to props - I don't think its meant to be a different skeleton. It does make it harder to figure out whose bones they might be though!

I hope you all are able to watch tonight and that the weather is held at bay!

Laocoon · 10/04/2017 3:01 pm

Hi, all, greetings to old pals and new members !!

Three thoughts, quickly. Apologies for being short on time today and rushing through this.

1 - Counting down 3-2-1 was used in S1E1 when the Pavlovich brother is on top of the car and about to abduct the girl Beth. He counts down with his fingers and Liz nods. (I don't think I saw this while skimming through comments above, apologies if I missed your earlier comment.)

2 - Take a look into Emmet County and Lake Charlevoix area, [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmet_County,_Michigan [/url]
Extract - "The county was named for the Irish nationalist Robert Emmet, who in 1803 was tried and executed for high treason against the British king for leading a rebellion in Dublin."

Could these references be used to draw a parallel to the Decembrist (relationship with Fitch), the leading of a failed rebellion, Red's exchange with Dom in Artax, the Kursk bombing, Berlin's story, and the underlying backstory? I don't know exactly how this all ties, but the number of hints is growing.

3 - The discussion above about brothers takes me back to T. Earl King and his relationships with his sons. We've talked a lot about theories re the Romanovs, twins (Lord Baltimore), Flora Segunda, and so on, but the idea of building a family empire of great wealth came up in T. Earl King. Just tossing this out since it's a brainworm (like an earworm?) for me right now.

Everyone's comments are so awesome that I have to watch Smokey again before tonight's ep. Love you guys.

lara1 · 10/04/2017 4:23 pm

Hi Laocoon! nice to hear from you. Re your comment #118 -

1 - Counting down 3-2-1 was used in S1E1 when the Pavlovich brother is on top of the car and about to abduct the girl Beth. He counts down with his fingers and Liz nods. (I don't think I saw this while skimming through comments above, apologies if I missed your earlier comment.)

Thank you! Yet another link with the pilot (I listed the ones I found above, and separately the 3-2-1 as numbers, but didn't link them with the pilot). You have really got me thinking now, esp that the count is given to Liz, and Beth, whom she is holding/protecting is then taken......

Interesting ideas about Emmet County....will need to chew on that one for a while!

Tuxie400 · 10/04/2017 6:43 pm

Hi Laocoon! Great to see you posting again. Thanks for the interesting connections!