The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 5.01 - Smokey Putnam

Tuxie400 · 9/29/2017 12:28 pm

Brittany #60 - You give a very detailed and thoughtful character analysis for Red, Liz and Tom. It's interesting that Red is also injured in the flash forward. I think I already wrote that my take is Red and Dembe are actually shooting at someone else who is there to hurt Tom and Agnes. I think your idea that it's someone from Katarina's past is a good one. I kept wondering last season where all the other threats to Liz were.

lara1 · 9/29/2017 12:56 pm

Tuxie400 - Yes, I thought of Whack a Kat (as in KR) last night. LOL those writers! thanks for sharing that with the group....

Re Red's expressions when Liz calls him father.....I noticed it right away and my first impression was that he looked like he was going to be ill.....! It could be for several reasons,

He could be chagrined because he never did want her to know. If that's what everyone was urging him to tell her in prior seasons, he did not want her to know. And he thought it would put her in danger so he can't be happy. But I always come back to, he had to know that from Day 1. Every time he would be with her there was the chance she could swipe his DNA. So either he thought the risk worth taking, or he's not her Dad.

Maybe he is not her Dad in the way we think. I don't know how to explain that but remember we had some discussions about a year ago when I was trying to figure out if there could somehow be a connection between Red's real daughter and Liz....but I don't think we got anywhere! LOL

I also liked Brittany's explanation further up where she proposes that Red is worried about the questions that are going to come his way. And what he is going to say. Those questions can no longer be deflected as in the past. If that's the case, then there is still stuff he does not want her to know. Why?

Tuxie400, I have found that Red usually twitches when he is upset. Sort of like someone biting their tongue....upset but holding it in check. So I guess the question is, why would he be upset...? The $24million dollar question, ha ha!

Last edited by lara1 (9/29/2017 12:57 pm)

lara1 · 9/29/2017 2:18 pm

BBB #48 - yeah I love Amy Acker as an actor too. She's very good. Would have loved to see her on TBL as an integral part of Red 'a new team. Maybe a new cleaner/protector.

Eastcoast #56 - nice observation on Liz. I didn't catch that but will have to look! I did think it was very weird that she said something like I'll have to kill you. And then they put that future flashback in. We've theorized before how the "warrior gene" (if she has it) can tick off her with small provocation, make her lose control. What if, despite whether or not she has "criminality"" in her DNA ( if that is even possible) a "killer instinct" is about to surface? What if that will be triggered by someone from her past re-entering her life, with immense consequences? Is that what Red is afraid of?). ( and what is his real mission anyway?).

Questions, questions!😁

Last edited by lara1 (9/29/2017 2:19 pm)

lara1 · 9/29/2017 2:24 pm

East coast - i agree that the bones look different but I think that is down to lighting and shifting in the suitcase. When Tom took the case out of the locker, they must have all been crumpled and settled at the bottom of the case (sorry!). Since they'd shift around in real life ( sorry again!) it doesn't bother me that much. But yes they appear different. Same bones, though.

lara1 · 9/29/2017 2:40 pm

Brittany - enjoyed reading your long post on the characters. It's always interesting to read the variety of views here. Will keep in mind when re-watching

On a slightly different note, i continue to think that Red really is a "monster under the bed". I think that's his biggest secret, and I don't think we'll know what it is till the end of the series.

Honey West · 9/29/2017 3:23 pm

lara1 wrote:
Hey everyone, apparently the Blacklist Exposed podcast on the episode is up already! yay!

HW - I keep getting the idea that Red is testing Liz, somehow. sleeping with one eye open. so to speak! Maybe relaxing and enjoying that they are getting along and she is not yelling at him! LOL. But agree, he is very much in charge!

I'm not sure that he is merely testing her, lara1, I think he is, and has been, training her.

Honey West · 9/29/2017 3:36 pm

Colleen wrote:
Brittany - LOL the Midwest would be proud(?) Have to admit, I want to try deep fried butter. But near a hospital.

Honey West - Never knew that caviar came from sturgeon. That adds a whole new level to Mr. Sturgeon. Sturgeon is such a funny sounding word that I expect Fozzy Bear to use it in jokes. The word caviar gives off a completely different vibe. Right now Ressler is sturgeon but maybe someday he'll get upgraded to caviar. Can't wait to re-watch that scene again now knowing the caviar background.

I mostly know that because sturgeon are common in the river here. People fish for them all the time, but it's limited. Over the past decade or so we've had a large influx of immigrants from Russia and Ukraine and, sadly, an uptick in sturgeon poaching for their eggs. When someone gets arrested for it, they usually always have a Russian last name. But that's not to say all sturgeon poachers are Russian, plenty of other folks take them illegally, too. Unfortunately for the sturgeon.

Honey West · 9/29/2017 3:40 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
BBB and Colleen, good to see you guys and everyone else on here!

So many thoughts about this episode.
The one thing I thought was creepy that no one touched on that I see is the creepy twist from Liz. That was a Psycho look on her face at the end when she looked at Tom and said she would kill him.
The first thing I thought of was that look Red had in Cape May I had mentioned when he was standing there with that axe behind him. I had just looked at Cape May a few nights ago and that look with that axe just has me wondering if he cut her up? They both Looked like something out of SK with that look on their face! Bravo to Megan for doing that so well!
I wonder if Red ever said that to KR?

Now I wonder if Kaplan told Tom who she thought was in the suitcase?
The preview for next week shows Tom looking through a door at Red pointing a gun at someone about it. So Tom knows this is big whatever it is.

My one complaint about this episode is this suitcase looks smaller and the bones are different. That really bothers me! I really dislike inconsistent things like that.

East coast, you and I think alike on a lot of these things. When I first saw the cut ends of the bones, I thought that same thing. Did Red kill her and chop her body up? Was it on purpose or an accident? That was if they were Katarina's bones, that is. Red with the hatchet at Cape May was kind of weird. But then I remembered that he had left his gun at the opium den so he was unarmed except for whatever he might find at the hotel. Then that made me think of The Shining. LOL!

And as for the new bones, yes, the rib cage is more together. I had thought the other one was split at the sternum. But. Was thinking that maybe they are still the same only being toted about by Tom, they shifted around in the suitcase since he last opened it. So we see them differently this time.

Last edited by Honey West (9/29/2017 3:42 pm)

lara1 · 9/29/2017 5:58 pm

Does anyone know if the song that Red and Liz were dancing to, "Don't You Forget About Me," is a remake of the same song that Simple Minds recorded back in the 1980s I think it was (showing my age there a bit!)? there's only a few lines in the episode but it sounds to me like a kind of jazz version of the song. If so, the refrain goes something like this:

Don't you forget about me
As you walk on by
Will you call my name
As you walk on by
Will you call my name
When you walk away

Interesting in light of the fire memory alterations and the "names" of Red. But I do love looking at the song lyrics that the show chooses for the various scenes.....

Last edited by lara1 (9/29/2017 5:59 pm)

Tuxie400 · 9/29/2017 6:35 pm

lara1 wrote:
Does anyone know if the song that Red and Liz were dancing to, "Don't You Forget About Me," is a remake of the same song that Simple Minds recorded back in the 1980s I think it was (showing my age there a bit!)? there's only a few lines in the episode but it sounds to me like a kind of jazz version of the song. If so, the refrain goes something like this:

Don't you forget about me
As you walk on by
Will you call my name
As you walk on by
Will you call my name
When you walk away

Interesting in light of the fire memory alterations and the "names" of Red. But I do love looking at the song lyrics that the show chooses for the various scenes.....

Yes, it's a Big Band version of the Simple Minds song. There's also a line in it about Will You Recognize Me?

lara1 · 9/29/2017 7:06 pm

Thanks Tuxie...interesting.

Big Badd Bazzer · 9/29/2017 7:36 pm

Thought the final song was something by Ryan Adams? No?

Honey West · 9/29/2017 9:27 pm

Tuxie400 wrote:
Speaking of Whack A Mole and being hit over the head, this episode seemed to be hitting viewers over the head with the Red is Dad info. After seeing several gifs that isolate Red's reactions when Liz mentions him being her father, I would agree that he has adverse reactions. The first is the gulp when Liz mentions saying he is her father in a sentence. The next time is later when Liz says, "You may be my father, and I am going to help you rebuild your empire because it will enable us to catch criminals. But I'm not gonna lose sight of who I am in the process." He has a slight cheek twitch. Some of the impostor proponents say this is because Red is upset or stressed about him calling her father. Brittany has said she thinks the gulp is because he's nervous because of the suitcase being in play. I feel there's something off, but I don't know why. What do the rest of you think?

I'm still behind in reading the comments, but slowly catching up! One thing I've noticed is that ever since Liz returned from the dead, I don't think Red has called her anything but Elizabeth since then. No Lizzie's that I can think of. Just the more formal Elizabeth. Or maybe it's more grownup than formal. I dunno. He was totally devastated by what she did to him, maybe even as much as he loves her, he still can't quite trust her.

Honey West · 9/29/2017 9:39 pm

Brittany wrote:
I've had chance to rewatch the premiere. I'm not as much into the symbolism on the show as I am digging into the character's brains (you can take the counselor out of her office, but you can't make her stop analyzing people), so I'm gonna talk about Red and Liz at this point because this episode was heavily about then and their newly revealed relationship (Coming from a non-impostor camp).

...snipped for space...

BRAVO! Brittany! Great analysis of these characters. I love it!

lara1 · 9/29/2017 10:37 pm

BBB - no, it was Paul Stone, doing a version of the Simple Minds song, Don't You Forget About Me. I'd never heard that version. But the Simple Minds song has a special place for me. The album was released right after I landed in the UK, where I would remain for many years. It brings back all the emotion, feeling and first impressions I had as I was about to embark on that adventure in my life.

(More than you asked for in an answer eh?! LOL)

9/30/2017 7:03 am

Honey West#73- I believe he called her Lizzy in Gaia during that scene in the car where she starts to cry about her failure as a parent to protect her child. But that’s the only time in season 4 I can recall. I agree that I don’t think he has been able to trust her in the same way. I think he always has a little bit of distrust because of her position as an FBI agent but that broke him. I don’t think he has ever quite been the same since. And her actions were a catalyst that led him to this point where he is in season five. I’ve been wanting to lock these two in a room until they talk about this. Because they only ever addressed it very briefly in episode three of season four where she says she knows he feels betrayed and he standing next to the grave.

Last edited by Brittany (9/30/2017 7:06 am)

Tuxie400 · 9/30/2017 8:02 am

Honey West and Brittany - Also in Gaia, Red calls her Lizzy when they are in the Blacklister's trailer and she comments that maybe the baby died.

9/30/2017 8:40 pm

Thanks, Tuxie400. I forgot about that. But both instances were situations where she was scared and upset.

Colleen · 10/01/2017 12:51 am

Honey West - I had no clue about poaching sturgeon and the cultural importance to local immigrants. Maybe someday the Refugees could compete on Jeopardy. Together we'd kick butt!!

Honey West wrote:

I mostly know that because sturgeon are common in the river here. People fish for them all the time, but it's limited. Over the past decade or so we've had a large influx of immigrants from Russia and Ukraine and, sadly, an uptick in sturgeon poaching for their eggs. When someone gets arrested for it, they usually always have a Russian last name. But that's not to say all sturgeon poachers are Russian, plenty of other folks take them illegally, too. Unfortunately for the sturgeon.

Tuxie400 - Whack a Kat - great catch! Thanks for the info. Jeopardy look out ;-)

TheYeti · 10/01/2017 4:54 am

As many of you seem to be looking for meaning behind the name Sturgeon, I remember knowing that the sturgeon is one of the few fish species that is not able to swim backward. Therefore, small sturgeons often die in ponds as they get restricted in vegetation. One of our own sturgeons once managed to swim himself stuck in a corner of a pond.

This makes a nice parallel to Ressler who has gone off the right path with no way to go back. Instead he is only pulled in deeper now that Prescott is using him to get favors.