BBB - I was wondering what happened to you last night. Good to have you back!  I agree with your assessment of Megan Boone. I loved her acting in this episode, and I thought she was terrific in the Season 4 finale episodes too. By the way, Glenn hasn't gone to the Great Beyond. I think he's going to be in Episode 5.03.

lara1 wrote:

Hi BBB!  I too was wondering where you were - welcome back!  I agree about Megan - and I thought of her as a kind of HoneyWest (the character, not our dear Refugee member!) or Diana Rigg type.  Same idea I guess, I'm just not as familiar with the newer names you listed except for Root (though Liz is not nearly so unhinged (but I did love Root's lack of hinge!  LOL). 

I didn't know cleaner man is Amy Acker's husband in real life.  thanks for that info.

I too will miss "evil Hitchens".  she was good at that!

Nice observations.

Hey, I was recently at the studio where they filmed Person of Interest.  Its on Long Island which really surprised me.  I don't know if you ever heard of Grumman Enterprises, they were a huge aeronautical firm that did a lot of US governmental contracts, part of the space shuttle program etc.  Long story short they were sold probably over 10 years ago to another company which ultimately closed the Grumman facility.  Now however the massive complex has been converted into two film studios.  Who knew?  Well I assume POI was filmed there, it says so on the website....

sorry I've gone off topic.  Back to 5.01.  Overall I loved it.  Great vintage REd.  Plus they planted the seeds for a bunch of stories that will undoubtedly grow and become more complex as we get through the season....

Only slight negative is that for new viewers coming to TBL for first time - this episode did virtually nothing in explaining the premise - - - if there ever was a premise. OK, too bad for them - we're hardcore blacklist warriors, no? HBWs if you will.
Lara - thanks for the info on Gruman
As you know (some others don't) Root (Amy Acker) is my all-time favourite TV character (Richard Kimball & Paladin have finally been supplanted). Her un-hinged portrayal of Samantha "Root" Groves is a veritable feast of great writing meeting great character meeting exceptional actress. Her next project 'The Gifted Amy Acker' starts Monday on Fox. Its actually called 'The Gifted'.
 

Brittany - agree - in any event, whether kaplan knew or not, she didn't plan for a DNA test to be done and confirm paternity (if it did heh heh).  But for now lets say it did.  That has thrown a wrench into everything.  But what I can't figure out is how that, combined with the suitcase, might have altered her decision to dig it up.  Food for thought.  But maybe Red was right - she wasn't a strategist, i.e. she could not always see three steps ahead - and admitted as such to Red on the bridge - failing to account for Hitchens and Wright.

BBB - thanks for that info I did not know Amy Acker has a project shortly launching.  And I haven't watched Fox in years.....so I will tune in to catch it.

Last edited by lara1 (9/28/2017 8:52 pm)

lara1 wrote:

Brittany - agree - in any event, whether kaplan knew or not, she didn't plan for a DNA test to be done and confirm paternity (if it did heh heh).  But for now lets say it did.  That has thrown a wrench into everything.  But what I can't figure out is how that, combined with the suitcase, might have altered her decision to dig it up.  Food for thought.  But maybe Red was right - she wasn't a strategist, i.e. she could not always see three steps ahead - and admitted as such to Red on the bridge - failing to account for Hitchens and Wright.

BBB - thanks for that info I did not know Amy Acker has a project shortly launching.  And I haven't watched Fox in years.....so I will tune in to catch it.

While The Gifted is getting superlative reviews - watching Amy Acker work is kinda like an acting class in its own right. I'm watching Angel right now - never saw it when it first aired - Amy comes on in S.2 as the mousey genius Winifred 'Fred' Burkle and then evolves to gradually steal the show.

Hi Colleen!  I also noticed the Michigan references from this episode and the past.  I wondered if he grew up in Michigan.  We don’t know much of anything about Red’s childhood other than a few anteceotes.  I’m definitely keeping an eye out for more references.  The Midwest would be proud(?) to have him as an alumnus.

Colleen wrote:

Anyway... I only have a few tidbits to add. Red mentioned working two summers at the Emmett County Fair. Geography-wise that's consistent with Red's past statement (season two?) about spending a summer at Lake Charlevoix, Michigan. Emmett County is right next to Charlevoix. I'm a bit obsessed with trying to figure out if or how Michigan is a clue about Red. Then again, Megan Boone is from that area of Michigan, so these may be inside jokes instead of clues.

Hey everyone, apparently the Blacklist Exposed podcast on the episode is up already!  yay!

HW - I keep getting the idea that Red is testing Liz, somehow.  sleeping with one eye open. so to speak!  Maybe relaxing and enjoying that they are getting along and she is not yelling at him!  LOL.  But agree, he is very much in charge!

lara1 wrote:

I think that was me that brought up the Season 3 role reversal thing.  But if you remember, Red did kind of let Liz run things from time to time in Season 3.  Remember when she figured out, by looking at the car, that its occupant would not be in the apartment and they could crash there?  Red just kind of went along with it.  So him allowing liz to drive kind of reminded me of that!  but yes I agree it isn't often that Red has let Liz take charge.  

 
Ooh what a perfect example lara1!!  And great list of all the clues. Over the summer I started seeing themes in RL (a flag sticker on a neighbor's front door, a client wearing flannel shirt) and would grin. Thank heavens season five started!

LOL I've heard of Whack a Mole.  But whack a cat - not a clue! 

BBB and Colleen, good to see you guys and everyone else on here!  

​So many thoughts about this episode. 
The one thing I thought was creepy that no one touched on that I see is the creepy twist from Liz.  That was a Psycho look on her face at the end when she looked at Tom and said she would kill him. 
The first thing I thought of was that look Red had in Cape May I had mentioned when he was standing there with that axe behind him.  I had just looked at Cape May a few nights ago and that look with that axe just has me wondering if he cut her up?  They both Looked like something out of SK with that look on their face!  Bravo to Megan for doing that so well! 
I wonder if Red ever said that to KR? 

Now I wonder if Kaplan told Tom who she thought was in the suitcase? 
The preview for next week shows Tom looking through a door at Red pointing a gun at someone about it.  So Tom knows this is big whatever it is.  

​My one complaint about this episode is this suitcase looks smaller and the bones are different.  That really bothers me!  I really dislike inconsistent things like that. 

Speaking of Whack A Mole and being hit over the head, this episode seemed to be hitting viewers over the head with the Red is Dad info. After seeing several gifs that isolate Red's reactions when Liz mentions him being her father, I would agree that he has adverse reactions. The first is the gulp when Liz mentions saying he is her father in a sentence. The next time is later when Liz says, "You may be my father, and I am going to help you rebuild your empire because it will enable us to catch criminals. But I'm not gonna lose sight of who I am in the process." He has a slight cheek twitch. Some of the impostor proponents say this is because Red is upset or stressed about him calling her father. Brittany has said she thinks the gulp is because he's nervous because of the suitcase being in play. I feel there's something off, but I don't know why. What do the rest of you think?

I've had chance to rewatch the premiere.  I'm not as much into the symbolism on the show as I am digging into the character's brains (you can take the counselor out of her office, but you can't make her stop analyzing people), so I'm gonna talk about Red and Liz at this point because this episode was heavily about then and their newly revealed relationship (Coming from a non-impostor camp). 

Red: At the beginning of the premiere, he is very relaxed.  He is looking forward to the rebuilding process because he enjoys the game.  It gives him a chance to diversify in ways he perhaps hadn't in the past, maybe even clean up his business dealings a little bit. He isn't so pressed to travel as much as he did in the past, so I think he is enjoying that as well.  I think Liz's influence will likely pull him a little more towards a better moral ground now that she's working alongside him.  Right now, Liz is safe and that is a weight off of him.  I also believe that to an extent the revelation that he is her father is also a weight off of him, at least at first.  He believes only she and Cooper know.   As I mentioned in an earlier post, he was pretty casual with her when he was talking to her on the phone at first.  He called her sweetheart, asked her how she was doing.  He's also very casual when she first shows up at the hotel.  I think he's looking forward to a little quality time, but is immediately shot down when she mentions needing a case.  When she talks about him being her father and "oh my god, that sentence and all that it means", that is a bit of a slap at Red.  Not intentionally, and not even undeserved, but I saw that gulp as a possibly feeling guilty for lying to her and/or anxiety that she is going to walk away (for whatever reason), which seems to be Red's biggest fear besides her or Agnes dying. He becomes more formal and distant with her after that. When he is hot-wiring the car and hears Aram say that Cooper told the task force, he quickly glances up at her, I'm guessing to gauge her reaction to more people having this information or out of concern that the news is spreading.  He looks at her again in the rearview mirror when he overhears Smokey talking about fathers and DNA, and then lastly when she gives him that speech in the car about not losing sight of who she is, he has a muscle twitch because this another time when she isn't talking about him being her father in a positive way.   I have always speculated that Red kept the truth from Liz for multiple reasons. 1) He felt guilty for everything that happened in her childhood and his role in it, 2) he considered Sam her father because he raised her,  3) because he feared her rejection if she knew the truth (not just about him being her father, but about all the other secrets he has). 
Kaplan mentioned at the end of season 3 when Red confronts her about helping Tom escape that she was sorry that he needed to know Liz so desperately that he believed he could keep her safe, and i believe she was right about that.  He had been keeping her safe for over 20 years from a distance.  If he had believed Tom to be a significant threat, he could have easily removed him from her life and tracked Berlin down.  I believe Red was dying to know her and just couldn't stay away anymore, thus justifying that he needed to come into her life for her safety.  He was prepared to walk away at the end of season 1 when she told him she couldn't get past what he did to Sam, and I think it hurt him, but he could understand it and wasn't as invested in the relationship as he is at the start of season 5.   Agnes' birth and Liz's faked death were turning points for him both on a personal level and in his relationship with Liz.  Since then, he has hardly called her Lizzy, only Elizabeth.  He has given her more space, and is very respectful of the boundaries of her role as Agnes' mother, always asking if he can see her rather than just presuming it is acceptable. He has backed off a little in her life overall. He realized he was smothering her, and I think after that he began to see her more as an adult and not just the little girl he watched grow up in pictures.   He mentioned in past episodes how he was prepared to die at any time because it didn't matter if he wasn't there.  Since Agnes was born, Red says he isn't willing to go without a fight.  I think Agnes was what kept him alive after Liz 'died'.  So now she knows and he both relishes and fears that.  He wants to be closer to her, which wasn't really possible without her knowing he was her father, but I think he is also terrified of getting too close too quickly because the suitcase and whatever it could unleash could unravel everything and it would destroy him.  I think he wants to be closer to Agnes and have that familial connection.   I can see this being a struggle for him as she wants to get closer.   The suitcase is causing him anxiety because it will unleash things that he knows are dangerous and now that more and more people are learning that he is Liz's father, he worries that those things will then touch her (and maybe Agnes) more than they might have before. 

Liz:  I think Liz is very disconcerted by Red at the beginning on the premiere, by his blasé behavior and seeming lack of ambition. She is both relieved to have the weight of "who is my father" off her chest and nervous about the fact that her father is a man who has killed many people and done many horrible things, many of them in the name of protecting her.  She believes it won't change who she is.  The jury is still out for me on that one.  I don't think it will fundamentally alter her, but will let her look at pieces of herself that are already there and possibly use them to her advantage or have a better understanding of them and that in turn will inform some of her behavior.  The time passage between the season 4 finale and the premiere is very short (likely only a couple of days, as I hadn't considered earlier the discovery of Hitchin's body).  I think she's still in shock and trying to figure everything out.  She doesn't know how she feels about it all yet, she still has questions, but I think she wants to hold off on bombarding Red because she knows he won't want to give her all the answers.  I think we will see her evaluate her feelings and how much of a relationship she wants with him as father/daughter over the next few episodes.  She will be closer to him on the job and this will likely push her closer personally.  Liz has always idealized a family, and even though she has come to realize that hers will never be normal, I think she still seeks those connections.  I noticed during that scene in the car with Red while they were waiting for Hawkins that she blows out a breath of air when Red talks about keeping the Wagoneer because it reminded him of his father.  That to me showed her anxiety over the whole situation.  But when she realizes the entire bounty hunting job had bigger implications and that he is still who he has always been, I think she's relieved and excited because she knows she can be a part of this.   I do anticipate her finding herself torn between Tom and Red as tensions escalate between them, especially because she won't be completely informed as to why. 

Briefly on Tom---now that I've rewatched the show, I can tell he's scared about the news that Red is her father because it will push her closer to Red, but also because I think he might be concerned about the ways Liz is similar to Red and how Red might influence that, either intentionally or otherwise.  I think there would be the possibility of Tom not telling Liz what was in the suitcase if he thought it would hurt her, but I have a feeling someone else will be on to him and it will come out no matter what once he starts digging in. 

And on the plot, in that flash forward, you can see that Red is also injured when he enters the apartment.  He has blood on his face and head, so he has also already been in a fight before walking in the door.  

Last edited by Brittany (9/29/2017 11:47 am)