The Blacklist Refugees » Summer 2017 Discussion

lara1 · 7/09/2017 10:24 pm

Hi, I think most of you have spotted it by now per Eastcoast's excellent photos and numbering as well as description....but yeah in the close up of #3 and #4, its in the circle number 4. So it could be an anchor with chain attached....the right side is obscured: it could also be a type of hammer, pickaxe or ice pick type of thing. It looks like a handle or other straight piece connected to it extends from it on an upwards diagonal through the top of circle 4 and connecting up through circle 5. If the picture is rotated upside down it looks more like that. But maybe like ink blots, each of us may see something different....!

Eastcoast, great catch on that book! I will have to check that. Like the matching mugs - which were in Dom's house and then Red had the same mug a few episodes later - I wonder if these things point to a close connection between Red and Dom. But how close? That is the question....then again, maybe not.

Last edited by lara1 (7/09/2017 10:25 pm)

Honey West · 7/10/2017 12:58 am

I wonder if the body was in the water for awhile, either held down with anchors or chains, or else those were how it was found, by dragging the anchor or whatever it is over the body and pulling it up? But some of those bone edges look cut. What if the person fell out of a boat and had an accident with the propellers? Would they get cut up or just mangled? (Oh, the questions that we come up with!)

I also think about what Dembe said to Red about Liz never being ready to learn what he did to Katarina. At first you think something he did physically, but what if it was emotionally or mentally?

lara1 · 7/10/2017 7:34 am

HoneyWest - i wonder that too. When someone says in anger, "how could you do that to me?", or "How could you do that to him/her?" it usually means an action that has caused something other than physical injury. But it could also mean physical harm. So imo it could mean either in this case. So now, that's cleared up! And I'm thinking, Red did kill Sam.

Last edited by lara1 (7/10/2017 7:36 am)

Tatiana · 7/10/2017 3:11 pm

Love this discussion! There is a Reddit discussion with a complete list of book names from red's flat. I'm vacay, so I 'll get back, but I believe there was only one book on surgery? And it was General surgery.

I don't remember katarina having burn scars on her back?

Tuxie400 · 7/10/2017 3:54 pm

Tatiana - I went back and looked at the Reddit stuff and some screen caps. The general surgery books were all I saw. But Pepe was on the set for the Season 2 and Season 4 episodes and may have personally seen a book whose title can't be seen well on the screen. He said the burn scars were on Katarina's back, but viewers couldn't see them because she faced the camera in the shots. All we got was Young Kaplan saying "You're hurt." Who was the director on the finale? The viewers were cheated out of Liz's scar and Katarina's. Hope you're having fun on your vacation!

lara1 · 7/10/2017 5:58 pm

Hi Tuxie400 - Yeah, it may be hard to pick up that book title. Some books were sideways as I recall and some were partly hidden. Maybe some were not shown in close up either...hmmm

I heard what Pepe said about the scars on Katarina's back. But there is a shot of KR in that scene where her back is to the camera, when she closes the curtains in the hotel room. Her shirt looked cut/torn in several places, with what looked like some minor injuries. But I didn't see anything that would have shown massive injury leding to scarring along the lines of what Red has. I think there would have had to be more extensive damage to the shirt/her back plus she would be in agony, not just brushing off her injuries as she appeared to do....Having said all that I have not yet listened to the interview so I suppose I should do that!

Tatiana - hope you are enjoying your vacation! I just came back. Didn't travel very far!

Last edited by lara1 (7/10/2017 6:01 pm)

Honey West · 7/10/2017 10:43 pm

lara1 wrote:
HoneyWest - i wonder that too. When someone says in anger, "how could you do that to me?", or "How could you do that to him/her?" it usually means an action that has caused something other than physical injury. But it could also mean physical harm. So imo it could mean either in this case. So now, that's cleared up! And I'm thinking, Red did kill Sam.

He killed Sam, but he also said that killing the father would be a mortal sin when talking about Tom and Agnes. So is Sam's death eating at him or does he rationalize that by seeing himself as the father and Sam as the man who raised her? Don't forget, Red also has Katarina bemoaning the fact that her child is being raised by someone else. I think that might have bothered him even more than Katarina. And how would he know that? Liz was taken to Sam after the fire and if I read this right, Katarina believed that Red died the night of the fire. I also wonder if he did kill Katarina is that why he views himself as unredeemable with only Liz being able to save him? Then again we have to go back to his whole thing about being her sin-eater. She asked him what she could possibly have done for him to be doing that for her. Then she "remembered" killing her father and jumped to the conclusion that's what he was referring to. He never denied it, even though, of course, he never confirmed it. Could Liz have been responsible for her mother's death? I mean, yeah it seems like she was indirectly responsible, but could she have been directly responsible? In the partially deleted scene by the fireplace in Cape May, Katarina murmurs that "they loved each other". Since it's really Red's thoughts, it would seem that he believes that Katarina loved him as much as he loved her. To me, that whole scene, even the part left in, tells me that they loved each other, but had a big fight right before "he died", and that the words between them were regretted, that they parted on bad terms. There is so much that we still don't know. Was she even talking about Raymond? Or someone else. And since he also remembered Sam and Lizzie on the beach, in another edited bit, does that mean that Sam might have been bringing Masha back to her mother at Cape May? If so, why? So many questions remain.

Colleen · 7/11/2017 3:40 pm

Hi Everyone! Hope summer is treating you well and vacations are full of fun

I haven't had much chance to do much Blacklist thinking lately but have been trying to keep up with folks' postings here. Was fascinated by the gender reassignment book reference - is there a chance the book could be in non-English and that's why we haven't spotted it before? I googled "gender reassignment" and "blacklist" and lo and behold the Blacklist Support Group came up! Apparently back when Tom Connolly aired, there was discussion about gender reassignment:

http://www.blacklistsupportgroup.com/p/the-blacklist-tom-connolly-discussion.html
Gender topic begins at comment #108

Within Tom Connolly discussion is also a reference to Karakurt discussion that included gender reassignment - topic begins at comment #165
http://www.blacklistsupportgroup.com/p/the-blacklist-karakurt-discussion-page.html
This was all before my time - even before I started watching Blacklist - so I have some reading to do
What little I did read so far is really fun - not just because of the gender theory but also because of past predictions, wonderments, and humor given how much the series has progressed since then.

Last edited by Colleen (7/11/2017 9:32 pm)

Colleen · 7/11/2017 9:30 pm

Here's a curious find - Belgrade, Serbia is the go-to place for gender reassignment surgery, especially for the more difficult female to male (FtM) surgery. A fellow named Sava Perovic began doing surgeries in the late 1980's, was world famous, authored journal articles and at least one book.

Did a quick scan of the Reddit discussion (thanks Tatiana and Tuxie 400!!) for the books in Red's apartment but nothing major jumped out. Maybe the Operative Surgery book, but my sleuthing on that will have to wait until tomorrow...

lara1 · 7/11/2017 10:03 pm

Hi Colleen! Nice to hear from you. And you always raise such interesting topics! I hope that you are having a nice summer!

thanks for the links, it was fun to go back to read through some comments on the old site. Your find on Belgrade was interesting too. I think at least one episode took place in Belgrade. I don't remember which one that was though. It would be good perhaps to pay more attention to the dialogue in that one. Though I still don't subscribe to the theory.....its still fun and interesting to look out for how these things are written.

Rl has been keeping me uber busy. I haven't had any time really to think BL thoughts....nor even really do a re-watch in earnest. I will probably end up binging large parts of it when I have more time in August....

Eastcoast · 7/11/2017 11:06 pm

Hey colleen! It is good to here from you and thanks for the links.

Eastcoast · 7/11/2017 11:12 pm

lara1 wrote:
Hi Tuxie400 - Yeah, it may be hard to pick up that book title. Some books were sideways as I recall and some were partly hidden. Maybe some were not shown in close up either...hmmm

I heard what Pepe said about the scars on Katarina's back. But there is a shot of KR in that scene where her back is to the camera, when she closes the curtains in the hotel room. Her shirt looked cut/torn in several places, with what looked like some minor injuries. But I didn't see anything that would have shown massive injury leding to scarring along the lines of what Red has. I think there would have had to be more extensive damage to the shirt/her back plus she would be in agony, not just brushing off her injuries as she appeared to do....Having said all that I have not yet listened to the interview so I suppose I should do that!

Tatiana - hope you are enjoying your vacation! I just came back. Didn't travel very far!

I agree, she didn't look that hurt to me. Usually to get those kinds of burns your clothes melt on your skin a lot of times. I just had that happen to a friend a few months ago. :-(

Eastcoast · 7/11/2017 11:19 pm

HW, 107,
by the end of the last season I don't know if I believe that she thought he was dead.

I had the impression that her and Red discussed that she should go to Sams because kaplan said,
"She told me that you are the only person who knew both her and Raymond, the only one they both trusted."
It also seams to me that if Red had died that Sam would have been a bit more upset then he was.
So we know that Masha shot someone, but I am wondering if it is someone else? There were a lot of people in the house she said.

Eastcoast · 7/11/2017 11:37 pm

So here are the tired and rambling thoughts rolling around in my brain right now...

I only have a couple episodes left to see and I will be done with season 2.
It is amazing to watch season 1 and 2 knowing what we do now. I have notes but I cant write everything right now.

I do feel like after watching General Ludd and The Judge that they knew who Red was.
I hit the back button and watched it a few times and I just think they were just shocked to see him.
Besides, Sam was waking up from surgery. He looked better than I did when I woke up from mine! lol
I also had to think how shocked I would be to see someone who was on the top 10 and a known murderer after all those years if I were Naomi or any of them.
I don't think she would have smacked a stranger especially Red like that! She looked him over real good and then really let him have it!! Yes, I looked at that one a few times!! lol How many people do that to Red and get away with it!!

Tom,
If he went into the trash can I didnt catch it. But it is interesting to watch his behavior towards Red. Especially in Leonard Caul.
I think being in the spy business and knowing what he is capable of that he didnt think he would be the best option for a father in law and if he knew he was her dad or thought he was that his being around her put her in danger.
IF he found it, then he may not know she didn't look at it unless she didn't open it and wondered why she didn't tell him. That could be why he made all the daddy remarks to her in the Pav. Bros.

In L.Caul.
I had wondered this before but had forgotten about it, when Liz goes into the warehouse to check it out she finds Tom there and he says he living there.
She didnt know that! But he said, 'I'm not doing this for him Liz, I'm doing it for you.'
So did Kaplan know he was there? Did she call him ahead of time to see if they could bring him there??
Or did Dembe know too because they had tabs on him?

I am still thinking about Cape May and that darn suitcase!

One thought I have is that Sam showed up in Cape May with Liz, she went into the water with her knowing
he would save the child and that is why he had to make a chioce between them.
Someone had mentioned before that maybe she took Liz in the water with her and if that was the case
then he could probably only grab one to bring back to shore. Maybe they went out in a small boat scouring the shore for her body?

The Other thing I have been thinking is that since he felt betrayed maybe he wanted to know what she did tell about him. Maybe he had her in the water trying to get information out of her and it went wrong?
After what Dembe said to Red, I do think she is dead.

well,

Honey West · 7/12/2017 12:08 am

Eastcoast wrote:
HW, 107,
by the end of the last season I don't know if I believe that she thought he was dead.

I had the impression that her and Red discussed that she should go to Sams because kaplan said,
"She told me that you are the only person who knew both her and Raymond, the only one they both trusted."
It also seams to me that if Red had died that Sam would have been a bit more upset then he was.
So we know that Masha shot someone, but I am wondering if it is someone else? There were a lot of people in the house she said.

I don't know, eastcoast, they seem to be giving us a lot of mixed clues. As usual.

Tuxie400 · 7/12/2017 10:52 am

Eastcoast - In Leonard Caul, Kaplan only arranged the first place for the mobile E.R. Taking Red to the warehouse where Tom was staying was all Liz's idea - not Kaplan's. Wasn't that the same warehouse Tom had used for his wall of Liz in Season 1?

The thing about the Sam/Red scenes that has always bothered me was Sam didn't call Red by any name. He definitely knew him, but maybe as her (Katarina). Lol! I really wish we knew more about Sam's relationship with Katarina and Raymond.

lara1 · 7/12/2017 11:34 pm

Speaking of the suitcase and Jennifer, I literally stumbled across this recent article by Carter Matt on Jennifer Reddington, who she is/where she might be. One of the ideas in the article is that the bones in the suitcase might belong to Jennifer. First I've heard of that and not sure what to think of it. Or anything about Jennifer, really. We know so little about her, unless there have been some other clues along the way that we have just missed. Well anyway here is a link to the article: http://cartermatt.com/257536/blacklist-season-5-revisiting-jennifer-reddington-mystery/

The Leonard Caul discussion got me thinking that I never actually knew what that warehouse was that Liz directed them to, LOL.

Last edited by lara1 (7/12/2017 11:34 pm)

Honey West · 7/13/2017 1:20 am

I thought that the bones might be the missing Jennifer, but then I just have a feeling she might still be alive, so I decided they might not be hers. I think it would be a far more interesting storyline if Liz has a living half-sister out there. That's assuming that Jennifer is also Red's real daughter. We know Kate has a sister out there somewhere, who may have had something to do with some Russians. A lot of folks are thinking we will see more of the Russian connection this season. That would make sense and be a natural direction for them to go. But, getting back to the bones, I am not sure how being Jennifer would make Dembe say what he did about Liz and Katarina.

Honey West · 7/13/2017 1:23 am

Interesting ramblings, eastcoast #114.

As interesting as the Red is Katarina idea is, I still think there is too much evidence that Red is Red. Whoever Red is.

Big Badd Bazzer · 7/13/2017 9:41 am

With the sheer volume of clues presented - perhps we should re-monicker the show 'The CLUE LIST'?