The Blacklist Refugees » Summer 2017 Discussion

Eastcoast · 6/01/2017 10:16 pm

Honey West wrote:
I agree with you, eastcoast #34. That's a valid interpretation of what Naomi may have meant. And the idea that Tom could have found the older DNA results that Liz threw away. I need to watch those episodes again because the timing is getting fuzzier the further away we get from them. I think Tom has known the truth for quite some time, but was sitting on it in case he needed a hole card for some reason. Or maybe he thought the truth would hurt Liz and after everything they've been through he just couldn't do that to her, and now with Agnes he wouldn't bring it up. But his "daddy's permission" comment to Red strikes me as him reminding Red that he knew the truth. Remember when Red gave Tom that envelope in the cafe and tried to get rid of him that way? I wonder if he might have also bought Tom's silence on that subject at that time.

That is what I have been thinking due to all the different things he has said to her. I just wondered how he would have known. I was actually wondering if he had done a dna test. lol
I am going to watch the episode where they go to dinner and go from there. I was not only thinking about what you mentioned but also about the time he told her 'we never really know anyone do we', and the Pav. brothers where he made the comment about the 'daddy daughter thing going on'. And I meant to mention in Cape may when Tom told him, 'I'm not going to let you make the same mistake with her as you did with Liz'. I remember thinking That it seamed like a strange thing to say if it was not her dad.
I wonder if he knew but just didn't know how to tell her.

Tatiana,

You are able to post big pics on here, what host do you use?

Eastcoast · 6/05/2017 2:08 am

So I was thinking about Cape May and watched it again.
That really is creepy when he walks up behind her with that axe behind his back. It's the look on his face! I was trying to think who it reminded me of.
It was a Jack Nickelson insane look. Lol

I wondered who reported they saw her walk into the water as it said on the paper? Since we know Red was probably there, I am thinking he called or he had someone call.

She said her affair with Raymond was uncovered.
So he would have wanted this whole thing to get behind
Him and go away.

Honey West · 6/05/2017 2:27 am

I watched part of Kaplan Conclusion this evening and it happened to be the part where Red went to see Dom and get the box. When Red told him that Masha faked her death in order to get away from him, Dom said he wished he could get away from him too. Or words to that effect. Anyway, it made me think that maybe Dom didn't just run off to the woods to get away from the pack on his own. Maybe he accepted an offer of protection from Red in order to escape. And now he can't get away from Red either. I did finally notice the part where Red said that Kate did NOT know about Dom, which seems odd to me considering that Kate thought of Katarina as maybe her best friend. I guess KR never talked about her dad or her family?

lara1 · 6/05/2017 9:15 am

interesting insight Honey West #43. you may be on to something there

Dom seems to be a closely guarded secret. When KR wrote in her diary about "wondering" what her father "would think" of her affair with an American, it almost sounded like she had not been in touch with him for a long time, or - he was deceased - which he was not. So I wondered if KR was either estranged from him at the time, or she purposely hid his existence in order to protect him (or herself) in some way. Just a thought.

Last edited by lara1 (6/05/2017 9:16 am)

lara1 · 6/05/2017 9:20 am

Thinking about this (#44) a bit more - Dom said to Red in Artax the he could have carried on being Masha's grandfather for the past 30 years. Which made me wonder whether he had not seen her since she was an infant. 30 years would have been 1986, a year after Masha was born and a few years before the fire. So maybe KR did put some distance between them in some way. And then whatever happened because of what Red id, maybe a few years later, sealed the deal that Dom could then never see his granddaughter.

Or, something else happened in 1986 to separate Dom from KR and Masha. But I can't figure out how that would have worked or what that would have been.

In any event, maybe something that introduced that separation from KR and Masha.

Last edited by lara1 (6/05/2017 9:22 am)

Tuxie400 · 6/05/2017 10:39 am

Eastcoast wrote:
So I was thinking about Cape May and watched it again.
That really is creepy when he walks up behind her with that axe behind his back. It's the look on his face! I was trying to think who it reminded me of.
It was a Jack Nickelson insane look. Lol

I agree it was a creepy moment. Shades of "The Shining" and Jack Nicholson.

Big Badd Bazzer · 6/05/2017 7:50 pm

Coming at you from a distant starship, on the window pane of eternity! Anyways, enough drivel from my old TimeSpace all-nite Radio show in the 70s
One plot-line the show-runners haven't explored is utilizing Red (and perhaps his entire network) to thwart a major terrorist threat (either to the USA, or to a large international city)
Letting Ray Reddington return to his hero roots as an FBI agent - perhaps bringing in some of his favoured criminal cohorts (funded of course by Harold and Pannabaker (aka U.S. Govt).
Probably need a 2 or 3 episode arc to pull it off properly, hire some good character actors as the terrorists - even have Red call in Dom, Howard & Tom's Mom in addition to the usual suspects (Tom, Liz, Harold, Aram, Samar, Elise plus the redoubtable Hussle Twins (Solomon & Nez)
But make no mistake - it would be Reddington calling all the shots and thwarting or expunging the terrorist threat.
Also, post-expungement - give a chance for Spader to explain the roots, origin and continuation of international terrorism thru extensive on-air interviews with the actors playing the surviving captured terrorists.

Decca · 6/06/2017 2:58 pm

Hi all, just checking in after a while. Here in the UK we've only just picked up again after the second hiatus so I'm still behind you.

All I really have to say is 1) phew! re Dembe and 2) we REALLY enjoyed the Mr Kaplan backstory episode. It was so engrossing and (seemed to) explain so much, it felt like a great episode for the fans.

Looking forward to getting to the end of the season so I can join in more of the chat and theorising!

lara1 · 6/08/2017 6:12 pm

Hi Decca! thanks for stopping by. Looking forward to your theories!

Eastcoast · 6/10/2017 1:11 am

After looking at the pics of the suitcase and the bag again I am wondering if they are the same ones KR was packing on her bed when she was talking to Kate.

After watching Cape May over and over and freezing it in several places and blowing it up I have noticed that when Red goes into Jacks Shack there are all kinds of ropes and pulleys in the ceiling. I could not see anything exact, but it could be logical to think that since this stuff was kept there that it could have come from there. The closest thing I saw was the thing on top of the orange ball.
(lara1, there are a bunch of flags when he first walks in)
I tried to read the graffiti, but it is small.

I did have a thought about the metal stuff in there. I blew up each section of that suitcase. (It sure is clean for having a body in it that long.....)
I see more than 1 metal object. There are at least 2 of those pulleys and there is a long metal rectangle object with jagged edges and something else I cant figure out.
The right side of the skull looks like it has a missing section... Something it whoever it was in the head.

I looked on line and there are so many things similar as far as pulleys. I even tried to look up pulleys from the 70-80s. is it possible that they got into a boat and dragged the shore to find her body with what ever was available in the shack?

Eastcoast · 6/10/2017 1:12 am

Both bags on KRs bed.

Last edited by Eastcoast (6/10/2017 1:13 am)

lara1 · 6/10/2017 11:33 am

Great work Eastcoast! I did not even notice that there was more than one suitcase on the bed. Two of Katarina's cases, or was she packing for someone else as well? That we did not see. For now, I'll assume both were hers....maybe one case with Masha's things.

Re the ropes and pulleys in Jack's shack. Good point. I had noticed how the camera kind of lingers on that stuff at the time - one of the ropes hanging from the ceiling kind of looks like a noose, in fact, and of course, as you mentioned also, all of those flags! The thing is, what is it all pointing to?

Interesting thoughts that you think whoever is in the suitcase might have been hit on the head (or shot?). Was that why we had so many (so so many!) close ups of Kate's injury in the last couple of episodes, including that one shot of her adding a hairpiece over it. Food for thought for sure!

Eastcoast · 6/10/2017 12:16 pm

I forgot to mention in my sleepiness that the same white thing is sticking out/off of the bag in both pics!

Tuxie400 · 6/11/2017 1:39 pm

Eastcoast - I never noticed two suitcases when I watched the episode. The suitcase that faces us in your photo is not the same one Mr. Kaplan had. They have different type handles and hardware. I didn't see a second either time I watched Requiem, and I can't ell anything from the small photo. Does the one facing sideways look like it might match?

Great find on the pulleys in Jack's Shack in Cape May!!! I'm going to have to go back and look at that. I was thinking about all the people throughout the series who've been hoisted up with rope and tortured: Samar and Ressler in Luther Braxton Part 1, Samar again in the Lippet Seafood Co., and one episode this season with Brimley torturing a random guy (not sure of the episode). I'm going back to see if pulleys were involved. I think all those pieces are part of the pulley. I found one anchor pulley that is similar, but nothing that exactly used all those pieces.

Why would pulleys be in the case unless they were involved in the person's death or how the body was hidden?

Tatiana · 6/11/2017 4:02 pm

Was Liz hoisted up by pulley in the Deer Hunter?

lara1 · 6/11/2017 4:19 pm

Tuxie400 - from what I can see, the second suitcase looks like a soft, black one - kind of like a carry on one would use for a plane. But I'm not 100% sure - will let Eastcoast answer.

Tatiana - Yes, I think so. She tried to get away I think and then she got pulled up off the floor. And wasn't Red hoisted up by Anslo Garrick at one point? Hmmm. Need to think about other instances, there may be some.

Eastcoast · 6/12/2017 12:50 am

It looked like a carry on to me.
I was thinking that Liz had a brown suitcase with her when she went to Sams. It would have to that one or one that Kaplan used.

lara1 · 6/12/2017 8:22 am

Eastcoast - good observation on the suitcase Liz had when she went to Sam's. I don't recall exactly how it was shown. Will have to look for it in the re-watch!

Hmm, lots of suitcases in those last few episodes of the season!

Tuxie400 · 6/12/2017 2:30 pm

Eastcoast and others - I looked at a screencap of the "bag of bones" again. There is a shadow on the right side of the skull. But that may be a natural indentation. When I look at other skull images, there is an indentation above the jaw joint. When I blew up the skull part of the screencap to get a closer look, I'm seeing a (bullet?) hole right between the eyes and above the nose. Anyone else notice that? I do see more metallic pieces than I originally noticed. Maybe there is something more than a pulley there.

Tatiana and Lara - Yes, Red in Garrick Pt. 2 and Liz in the Deer Hunter seem to have been hoisted by pulleys. I thought the scene with Brimley in the Lindquist Concern was rather strange. He wanted some long reaching matches. But I do think it is foreshadowing those pulleys in the suitcase.

lara1 · 6/12/2017 7:14 pm

Tuxie400 - I don't see a bullet hole but the image gets too blurry when I enlarge it. I need to try to get it to project onto a TV screen....but, both you and Eastcoast are thinking the skull is damaged in some way, and that to me is completely feasible. If the person was shot like that, the bullet would probably (?) have exited the back of the head, again this points me to Kaplan's head injury at the back of the head and why we kept being shown close ups of it through most of the episodes on the back end of the season....

For metallic objects I have the same blurry issue, though I definitely see what looks like the pulley and a chain (oddly to me looks like a bicycle chain but that's probably just me)....it does look though like that same metal object/pulley kind of extends out from the bottom of the skeleton on the right - ? maybe.

I also see what looks like a mask in the bottom left but I am sure that is just how my brain is perceiving whatever object that is and the shape it is taking!