Honey West wrote:

I'm not so sure the bones were buried. At least not directly in the earth. What's left of the skin looks dried. But not mummified. I mentioned once before that I had to build a prop corpse that had been kept inside a barrel of brandy for years. The skeleton reminds me of that. My corpse had more skin on it, though, and it was in one piece, not cut up. One of my first thoughts about suitcase skeleton was what if the person had had an accident with a propeller? Would they be cut up or just mangled? (The crazy things we think about for this show LOL!) maybe I should research boating accidents.

 
I agree with you.  I had the thought of a propeller too.   I hate to sound morbid,  but from what I know when bones are buried they are usually cleaned off by nature...  they wouldn't have any flesh left on them....

Waaaaayyy back on the old board we discussed quite a bit about Red seeming to have a great deal of guilt over something that happened in the past. He either caused a death, or other terrible tragedy, or failed to prevent one by his actions or lack of actions. We felt it had to do with his family, maybe whatever happened the night he disappeared. This was around the time of Madeline Pratt, so his story to her was on our minds.

Then, much later, we have Dom blaming him for getting [i]his[i][ family killed. Does Red have a habit of making bad calls or is this the same incident? I don't think we're going to find out anytime soon, especially as Megan Boone says that Dom and Liz haven't had any interactions yet. She did say that would be good to tell the writers we'd like to see that.

I had noticed that look down at the ground too, which was why I haven't ruled out the possibility that KR is in the suitcase.  I could see Red killing KR if he believed she was a threat to Liz's safety, and even possibly convincing Kaplan that what he did was right.  Ranko Zamani told Liz that Red was 'obsessed' with her.  I can see why he would say that.  Red walked away from a marriage, another child, a career, reputation, and fairly normal life in order to create this empire to protect her.  Like he said in Cape May, she was his life and he has said in a roundabout way that he would burn the world to the ground to protect her.  I don't think there is a limit on who he would kill to protect her (except for Agnes). 

That being said, I tend to think KR isn't in the suitcase, but have suspicions that at least at one time Red believed she was.  We've seen hints of him looking into her past in season 3.  That could have been him discovering she was alive.  I could see Kaplan helping her fake her death.  I really want to see her come into the show. 

lara1 wrote:

Eastcoast - yes - After re-watching the finale, and seeing Kaplan looking down as she said she was sorry (that I hadn't noticed before), it does seem like it would be KR.   The question would then be, what happened to her, why and where were those bones all of this time?  If they were somewhere else and then buried more recently (my current theory), where the heck were they?

I'm not sure that Red killed her though.  I'm not sure that Kaplan would have grown close to him and "loved" him as she admitted, if he killed KR.  She might have tolerated him for Liz's sake but I don't think she would have grown close to him.  And I don't think Dom would ever speak to him at all unless Dom does not know.  But somehow I think Dom knows a lot.  That's why Red (and KR apparently) has kept him a secret from everyone. Maybe it was an accident or maybe an unexpected result of something Red did (harkening back to Dom's words in Artax).  

then again, why would someone finding Kr's bones pose a threat to Masha?  Unless it would reveal that KR and "current" Liz are not really related and expose Liz to some other danger.  But I don't think that's the case.

Questions, questions!  LOL

I've had the exact same theory, lara1 (not necessarily about the bones belonging to a child, but the fake dead child Liz). I could definitely see Red faking Liz's death, even to fool Katarina into thinking she was dead so Liz could have a fairly normal and safe childhood. 

And my guess it that Red just never believed he would ever have to doubt Kaplan or that he would always predict betrayal.  I think Red's judgment and logic has waned a little since he came into Liz's life because he gets caught up in getting to know her or focusing on her more than he possibly did in the past. 

lara1 wrote:

Brittany - I would love to see KR come from the shadows.    I keep coming back to the idea that its a child in the suitcase and that Liz's death was faked as a child in order to protect her, and that someone finding the skeleton and figuring out that Liz was still alive would put her in danger.

she has since been outed as Masha anyway but that did put her in grave danger with the Cabal, the Director and all that.  so maybe now it would not put her in danger so much as give Liz "the truth" about Red and whatever he did to somehow connect him to the bones.

But the thing I don't get is, if the suitcase is so important and Red knew kaplan knew about it, why he left it there unsecured.  Perhaps he never dreamed that Kaplan would do that, go that far, and somehow completely shatter Liz's world.

And we still have the mystery of what he told Kirk!  LOL

Thanks Brittany. I somehow missed that

TBL also tweeted out when Red asks, "does the FBI have a Christmas party?". I somehow missed that Christmas reference the first time around  Interesting context for Christmas reference.  Will add to the Christma thread.....

Ive seen a lot of people elsewhere saying that too.  I’m kind of surprised they released it without checking it. 

Eastcoast wrote:

I saw that list. I do not think it is correct....
Ours is more complete. 

Eastcoast wrote:

I saw that list. I do not think it is correct....
Ours is more complete.

Kind of strange they did not check.  And why release it now anyway?

Easctoast - thank goodness we have you keep tracking for us!  
 

I just made a free association connection I hadn't before.

"Dr. ORCHARD" - who tells Liz about her memory alterations and how she can't rely on the fire memories or the people in them being the actual people.

uh - "Tansi Farms" - essentially an apple orchard.  And Red barn and buildings.  Several of us previously pointed out references to apples throughout the series.  Including the apple that the Director bites into!  (Forbidden fruit??)

The night of the fire, in the memory, one of the child's drawings has an apple tree.

There is lots of creepy stuff in the attic there - a single bed with pink bedcovers (so the message is, belonged to a little girl who slept in it); Lots of CHRISTMAS decorations in BOXES, and I think I may have mentioned previously I thought I saw what looked like a stuffed rabbit in one of the boxes.

Then we have a suitcase with bones buried under a TREE on the property.

I don't think we have enough to string it all together yet, but somehow I think what is in the attic is loosely connected to fire night or someone who was part of fire night, as are the bones probably.  I'm not saying that the stuff in the attic or even the bones are from fire house (probably unlikely) but given Dr. ORCHARD is associated with the fire memories, somehow it is going to come together to be related.

Anyone else pick up on anything further in Tansi Farms or the attic?  The lamp also had one of those strange amber lampshades that crop up wherever Red is and in Dom's house too.  There are two figures on the lampshade.  That may be a clue but I can't see what they may be.  Anyone else notice that?

LOL.  three more days!

Last edited by lara1 (9/24/2017 5:07 pm)

So here is probably what will be my final comment on S4 before S5 starts.  I watched the Season 4 finale yet again tonight.  And thinking about Kaplan's comments of love to Red.  In the finale, as we know, the last thing she tells Red is I loved you Raymond.  She also tells Liz, in the car, that she loved Raymond.  A couple of episodes earlier she also tells Red that she loved him.

In Mato, we heard how Kaplan and Red "knew" each other - Red supposedly placed Liz in Kaplan's hands when Liz was a baby girl; and he was "away" when Kate and Annie were attacked.  Yet in Requiem, Kate appears to hate "Reddington" by what she says to Sam when Sam comes to try to fetch her to meet with Red; and we are also led to believe that she is meeting Red for for the first time during that meeting which takes places around 1993.  Yet we also have references to Kate working for Red as early as 1987.  Some of us theorized at the time that Red may have arranged for Kate to work for KR and to watch over Liz.  Lastly, Kate saw "the American" in the car, albeit briefly.  So, were Reddington "the American" and Red different people?

Apology in advance - this plays into the imposter theory - what if Kate did love Red, and did know him as early as and maybe before, 1987.  But she did hate Reddington and did not "meet" him until 1993.   In this theory, this was after "Red" took over the persona of "Reddington" .  In other words, Red is not Reddington.  She loved him and knew him as Red.

I also think there is more to Kate than we saw.  All of those international assignments for diplomats.  She did not flinch when KR was attacked in the kitchen and helped her by kicking the knife across the floor to her.

I can't find that we ever looked into the name Tansi, did we? It has several meanings in several languages. I suspect the name probably has something to do with where the farm is located. Interesting thing is its meaning as an Indian girls name - Beautiful Princess. But it is also a surname in Africa, a Hopi Indian word and a Cree Indian greeting where it's like saying "how's it going?" There is a community called Lake Tansi Village in Tennessee.