lara1 - I thought of the Suitcase Full of Sparks song too. I also think Randy Travis's Digging Up Bones would have been a good one for when Kaplan was digging up the suitcase.

Kimintexas - The DNA test is based on blood from more than 30 years ago, before Katarina or another imposter would have taken Red's identity. So, no, I don't think it rules out either of those imposter theories. If the DNA test were based on a more recent sample, it certainly would. I personally believe Reddington is the original Reddington as this point. But I can't rule out Katarina or other imposter theories yet. In my opinion, every option is still in play, because the writers want it that way.

Jennifer was the daughter of Naomi and Raymond. Some people believe she was a stepdaughter. The show nor the showrunners have ever confirmed the stepdaughter theory. Berlin's daughter was named Zoe.

JackPow wrote:

That's what got me. We finally get this moment we've been waiting for since the series began. Liz finally discovering that Red is her father and confronting him with the info. I think we all envisioned a perfect James Spader acting moment. Perhaps one of those incredible emotional Red monologues and a real watershed moment like "yes, it's true. That's why I've cared so much....." yadda yadda yadda.

But instead, we get.....nothing. Just Red looking at Liz in silence. No way the writers are going to waste a James Spader moment on such an important scene. I think the look of shock on Red's face wasn't that he was choked up with emotion but him frantically thinking "ok ok what DOES she think she knows?" and then realizing his (or her?) secret is still safe, as Dembe seemed to suggest in the following scenes.

So frustratingly, the "reveal" this episode was unsatisfying. We have a blood sample taken from a decades old bloody shirt. I think it still leaves open the imposter/Redarina theory.

As for the suitcase, I have to say I have no idea. My initial reaction was that the bones are Katarina's. (that would obviously make me drop the Redarina possibility) In keeping with that, I wonder if there is something to Red's comments in Cape May to "Katarina" about "I chose the child" suggesting he had to either kill the mother or just let her die in order to save Lizzy. Though his callous words of "that goddamn suitcase" seem an odd choice to describe someone you once cared about, was truly broken up over his Hobsons Choice.

Your theory takes on greater gravitas when one realizes the Reddington Group (or other top level criminal organizations for that matter) have long tentacles into medical/legal science - so the concept of blood-swapping is second nature when required.
The show-runners also are quite attached to this concept - where the verifiable soon becomes THE UNVERIFIABLE.
Whatever it was - Liz sure bought into it big time. And she's a top level profiler.

BBB - "The show-runners also are quite attached to this concept - where the verifiable soon becomes THE UNVERIFIABLE."

Oh yes....and it certainly keeps our heads spinning! Haha

Oh yea, I definitely think the real Raymond Reddington is absolutely Liz's biological father. I just wish we got more of an authentic response from our Red. Think of that emotional moment with Red by Dembe's bedside recently (with "the mystery goodbye box") or with Madeline Pratt in the prison cell, so many of those fantastic James Spader moments throughout the series. But we didn't get that this time. Hmmm.. 

Tuxie400 wrote:

Kimintexas - The DNA test is based on blood from more than 30 years ago, before Katarina or another imposter would have taken Red's identity. So, no, I don't think it rules out either of those imposter theories. If the DNA test were based on a more recent sample, it certainly would. I personally believe Reddington is the original Reddington as this point. But I can't rule out Katarina or other imposter theories yet. In my opinion, every option is still in play, because the writers want it that way.

Jennifer was the daughter of Naomi and Raymond. Some people believe she was a stepdaughter. The show nor the showrunners have ever confirmed the stepdaughter theory. Berlin's daughter was named Zoe.

Tuxie400 - I tend to agree that the writers want to keep us with that doubt for now.  If they genuinely wanted to remove all doubt, they would have made up some story about how they still have a more recent (i.e. post surrender) DNA sample (i.e. way to run the current DNA, through something obtained or kept from an event earlier in the series, esp Anslo Garrick)

I also don't recall Cooper and Liz ever taking about whether Red was her father, the way Cooper said, something like, at last we'll know.....?    But that aside, I can go with it, and I think it was a plot device to give us a DNA sample and at the same time, also another piece of the Reddington back story, and, perhaps very importantly, introduce us to "Seaduke" who I think is an important character.

I never knew what to make of Naomi and Jennifer.  Coming up in the series shortly after both Tacoma Park and Diane Fowler, the guy who changed a family's DNA and left a bloody scene to cover up kidnapping his real family,  (and Red's Christmas Eve story, if that is true),  - the way Naomi said to Red "not as much as you", after Red tells her she has changed so much - really started to cement for me a possibility that Red was an imposter.  All the others to date who knew "Reddington" eventually recognized him upon meeting him, but Naomi's comment made me think that she did not, or would not had she not known who was standing in front of her.  Like he no longer looked like who he was (i.e. not Reddington).  But that's all a very deep mystery....I digress...so easily done...LOL.  
 

Lara - I also don't recall Cooper and Liz ever taking about whether Red was her father, the way Cooper said, something like, at last we'll know.....?    But that aside, I can go with it, and I think it was a plot device to give us a DNA sample and at the same time, also another piece of the Reddington back story, and, perhaps very importantly, introduce us to "Seaduke" who I think is an important character.

I heartily concur. Seaduke is very important. Cooper and Reddington's affiliation and history is very important. The DNA is meh, not so important But it also points to evidence and a file from 30 years ago. If 30 years ago is correct (and not a random, oh, a few decades ago) then that would be 1987, before fire night, before Reddington abandoned his family christmas eve 1990.

My take on this finale:

We have LOTS of information that the producers may have only intended to share when the series ended. Remember, they had to do two shots, one for the season finale and one for the series finale. They probably did the series finale in such a way that most of the actors would not know what the Big Secret is.

And we have a whole summer to dissect it all (bag o'bones included).

What if we're looking at this all wrong? What if it doesn't matter if Reddington is Liz's biological father?
What if Reddington is deep undercover, still trying to capture the spy who went out into the cold - Katarina?

Her story is so vague. Even before she went into the ocean at Cape May she could be anyone to everyone, but they all thought she was just a figure of someone's imagination.

Perhaps in this case, Liz was "chosen" by Reddington so that eventually, he could draw Katarina out? "You remember what she did, not who she was"
I think Red and Carla were a happily married couple, but Red became so immersed in this mission she "hardly recognized" him. It wasn't even so much his physicality as it is who he's become.

And Red is not out for revenge. He has a mission. To keep Elizabeth safe and to keep himself free.
Why? 
Because he needs to make sure Elizabeth stays alive and he needs to be free so he can go about his mission. 

Did Katarina target his family? Did Katarina cause his daughter to become disfigured or even dead? 

I don't have time to sort all this out right now, but the most compelling evidence that he is deep undercover is that he was never captured. All those times Cooper and Ressler were after him, poof *** he just disappeared. He's protected, we know that. I suspect Cooper is in on it and possibly Ressler to a small degree and that really goads Donald because Red is flaunting his criminality.

Anyhoo, it seems to make more sense of the puzzle in my opinion. It's not necessary to have an impostor. 

What I do think is that the woman we know to be Elizabeth may or may not be Masha. They 'branded' her with the scar so that they would know it was their 'chosen one'.
And I believe she's meant to be bait for Katarina, 

We shall see. Like I said, lots of time this summer to ruminate.

Tatiana wrote:

What I do think is that the woman we know to be Elizabeth may or may not be Masha. They 'branded' her with the scar so that they would know it was their 'chosen one'.
And I believe she's meant to be bait for Katarina, .

That's really interesting! And that would explain why Kirk said there wasn't a fire. Maybe the fire only exists in Liz's memories. And, yes, I remember the scars on Red's back. So much to ponder . . .
 

Tuxie400 wrote:

Any thoughts about whether Seaduke might our Red, if Red is an imposter? This person was a Russian operative who Counterintelligence was closing in on. Maybe taking the identity of Reddington was better than what was in store for him (if he is a him and not Katarina).

 
Maybe Seaduke was the head of the Russian contingent of the Cabal at the time? And that was when Red first encountered them?

Last edited by Honey West (5/22/2017 3:07 pm)