TheYeti - enjoyed reading your insights also.  I am inclined to think the same re the "original" Reddington and what "our" Red may have done.  My first thought when hearing about the suitcase was that "what you did to Katerina" doesn't necessarily mean Red killed her (though its certainly a possibility), rather he did something to hurt her otherwise, like killed someone she cared about.  In your idea, that could have been the original Reddington.

I think the real clue to who might be in the suitcase is the size of the skull - would that not determine whether it was an adult or child?  Unfortunately (and naturally!) the skull is partially obscured so its hard to tell the size of it  - not that I'm at all an expert!

Lastly, my main thought on the suitcase is this - Kate was going to bring Liz somewhere (Tansi Farms?) and she said that she would show Liz the "truth" about why Red came into her life.  I didn't think that related to paternity, and now I'm convinced it was not after re-watching and hearing Dembe and Red's conversation by the tree looking for the suitcase.  The real secret is not that Red is Liz's father (whether or not that is true), but something else.

My main question is, not only who/what is the suitcase (and what is all that stuff in the attic in the barn at Tansi Farms), but if that is the "real" reason why Red came into Liz's life - what about the timing?  In other words what about who is in the suitcase and what is at Tansi Farm ties in with the timing of Red's return?

We don't know of course and now I'll spend the entire summer looking for clues.  Though I'm not sure we will find many, if any, in prior seasons.

 

Last edited by lara1 (5/20/2017 11:22 am)

deadskie13 wrote:

The first thing I took note of, was that Red is not just a criminal--he is first and foremost a businessman, and we got to see him in action, as he's scrambling to find some kind of means to hang onto.  Also, financial ruin cannot take away his personality.  

Red is incapable of seeing how much he means to other people.  I think he gets it with Dembe, I mean.  But the whole deal with Dom was just so brilliant and perfect and amazing and flawless, that it made me think of a lot of things.  

First off, despite what Red says, it's quite clear that Dom does like Red.  Like that much--with italics and everything. Because Dom seems quite ticked off that Red isn't "fighting back", and this is before he's aware that Liz is still alive.  As far as Dom knows, at this point in time, Red is just running--and it makes him angry.  This is the Raymond "Red" Reddington, after all.  And it seems like Dom has known Raymond long enough to know the man behind the name, and he believes that neither one of them should give up.

My goodness!  The first showdown with Kate, and Red saying he "doesn't want more death"!  Jeez-o-peetz!  I live for moments like that, truly!  Good writing and brilliant execution, I mean!  James and Susan were doing nothing but knocking them out of the park, one right after the other.  Perfection!
.

Remarkable insight. I agree, Red sees himself as an unforgivable monster. Clearly others see him as forgivable: Dembe, Kate. Remember the conversation Reddington and Elizabeth had about forgiveness?

I agree wholeheartedly that Dom does like Red; is he afraid to show it because Red brings death to everyone?

"The road not taken"... their lives split and one path was filled with happiness, the other with ruin. I love that Robert Frost poem. Agreed: Spader and Blommaert knocked it out of the park.[img]data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7[/img]

http://nypost.com/2015/08/16/the-famous-robert-frost-poem-weve-read-wrong-forever/
 

Honey West wrote:

Anyway, I checked Requiem and no, not the same suitcase. That would have been ironic, wouldn't it? But the body suitcase is scuffed, so it's not pristine. Red gave the impression that the suitcase was what had been buried. I wonder if maybe the body was buried in a suitcase, but when she dug it up, it was too far disintegrated to use so she transferred the contents to another old suitcase, maybe from that barn. That seems highly plausible to me. So it was still bones in a suitcase that Red would know about.

Whatever happened to Katarina, it happened right after her phone call to Kate in Requiem. I was looking at her clothes in that scene, and she was not only wearing the same coat, but she was wearing that same turtleneck sweater as in "Cape May." Red had to have been there. In his opium-infused memories of Katarina he remembers her wearing that same outfit at Cape May. The only reason he could know what she'd been actually wearing is if he had been there. So he must know what happened there. To her. I'm not sure Kate could have been there, though. I thought she took the phone call while she was still at the motel in Nebraska. Kate wasn't Red's cleaner yet. So how did Kate come to know all about the body in the suitcase and why was it "their secret"?

Good detective work, Honey West! I was wondering if the the suitcase was the same one Katarina was shown packing in Requiem. Thanks for ruling that out. Red did seem to think the bones were buried in a suitcase. It's interesting that Katarina was wearing the same outfit in Cape May. I never thought Red was at Cape May when Katarina died because I thought he had those serious burns from the fire. Couldn't he have just seen the clothes that were found on the beach?

I am perplexed too about Kate knowing about the bones and calling it "our secret."  If Red killed Katarina accidentally and then chopped her up, maybe he confessed that to Kate at some point. Didn't he call her his confessor in a recent episode? And how do the bones explain why Reddington came into Liz's life? I wouldn't think Katarina's bones would be the impetus for Reddington re-entering Liz's life four years ago. So who else could those bones belong to? In order to be a threat to Liz, it would have to be someone who knew her real identity. Did Jennifer know? Did Aunt June? . 
 

I am so sorry to do another post and run--and I do promise to catch up with as much as I can, and soon--but I was thinking for a bit, and was kicking around the idea in my head that what if Reddington had an identical twin?  I know we've kicked around the theory of Liz having a twin--but what if it isn't her at all?  What if it's been Red?  And then that twin is the "original" biological father of Lizzy--the one she accidentally shot and killed that night.  

Figure Red got around a LOT back in the day--and maybe that's one of the reasons.  Maybe our boy Red that we know and love, shared a single "spy life" so to speak, with his brother, and fire night is where things went catastrophically wrong.  It would open up a few possibilities to things making sense and falling into place.  

First off, it would mean that our Red did have another family that met an unfortunate demise.  Between fire night, and his life with Carla, jotting off between Russia and America, and the story he feeds Madeline Pratt about Christmas Eve--that's a lot to happen to just one person, and in such a compressed time frame.  I'm not saying it's impossible--and I imagine those clever cats in charge have it all figured out--it's just that since we're not working with all the puzzle pieces yet, it's still not a clear picture.

Second of all, it could mean that Red and his brother were both in love with Katarina--or, that just Red was and his brother was not; that one of them was maybe willing to let Kat and Lizzy go, and the other (I'm leaning towards our boy) was not--and that unfortunately got "twin Red" killed.  

Thirdly, I could be wrong, because I really hate research and didn't delve into it all that much, but it could mean that Red would show up in DNA results as Elizabeth's biological father, even if he wasn't.  Plus, there's the deal that Lizzy would go walking around, growing up, looking very much like his own daughter--the one he lost.  

And I know it's all speculation, and I haven't thought of it all that much, to work out the kinks and details and such--and I do apologize if it's been brought up before.  But it kind of makes sense to me, with how all the pieces could fall into place:  an ultimate act of family betrayal where shifts and splits took place--not only between Katarina and Red(s), but between two brothers, as well; an accident where Liz's father is dead-but-not; Dom maybe preferring twin Red to our Red, and that being an added source to Red's comments about not being able to be who Dom wanted him to; Red's absolute devotion to Lizzy--and Liz so desperately wanting a father, and then Red finding a second chance at being a Pops.  

It would also open up the floor to Red having never lied to Lizzy--why "the answer isn't as easy as the question", why "everything about him is a lie", why he's in her life "because of her father", why he confessed that "Elizabeth Keen is my daughter", why he would know every single detail to "original" for lack of a better term, Red's life.  Because he shared that life; because he was there for everything.  

I don't know.  I'm not sold on it.  It's just a thought.  It sounds like the pieces fit, I mean--but I do confess, I was always the kiddo trying to pound the circles into the square pieces.  

lara1 wrote:

I agree with all of the others here regarding the scene where Liz confronts Red about the DNA test - that scene was perfection - in writing, in acting, in pacing, in direction, and everything else about it.  I was so drawn in and mesmerized by, and immersed in, that scene, while not knowing exactly what Liz was going to say or how she was ultimately going to react.  Wonderful, wonderful scene.

 I think this was one of Megan Boone’s very best scenes, if not her best acted scene, in the whole series. Spader conveyed so much here with minimal dialog. Red neither confirmed nor denied what Liz said. He just let that acceptance wash over him as she welcomed him into her family.
 

well, deadskie13, twins have been part of the story before with Lord Baltimore. I used to wonder if Liz had a twin, but Requiem seems to rule that out. So does Red have a twin? We know so little about him, that it is certainly possible. I'll have to chew on that one for awhile and see if I see anything.
All this time I think about Kirk saying to Red, "You remember what she DID, not who she was." And that is pretty much the way we have Red presented to us. We have seen some of the things that he DID, but we still don't know who he is/was. 

Honey West wrote:

I still think that Red and Dom is a parallel to Tom and Red.

I can see that: if Red was working as the driver at KR's, did Dom hire him as Red hired Tom? It sure is possible!

I need to work on my new "theory of everything" and post it in the new section.

Here's my present hangup: If KR didn't send the painting, who did? Otherwise, I could go along with it being KR in the suitcase. If KR is still alive, then I could argue that it's the original Raymond Reddington in the suitcase -OR- it's the original Misha, whom Liz replaced.

Or someone else entirely sent the painting. I need to rewatch that episode.

We need a big, searchable set of episode outlines!  (:

No, I'm not volunteering. LOL! 


 

Last edited by IowaWatcher (5/20/2017 4:36 pm)

<face slap> Yes! The reason I keep saying Liz was at Cape May - the deleted scene of her and Sam walking on the beach! I am thinking that one of them (mom or dad) had Sam bring her to Cape May because they were probably planning on all disappearing together as a family! Or maybe that was Red's plan and Katarina balked. Or vice versa.

Tuxie400 and The Yeti - yes, that dropping into the storyline of Seaduke, I'm guessing around 1987 (I think Harold said something like three decades), I think is a major part of the next step in the mystery.

Note the name:  "SEA" and "DUKE" (royalty again).  A name with two of the biggest running clues/symbols in the series.  An operative who was never caught.  I think this person has a major tie in to the overall story arc.  Both in the past, and maybe now.  But we don't know who he really is.

So Red was caught and tortured (by the same agency I think that Berlin was affiliated with) - which means he had "secrets" that they wanted.  Did that ultimately lead to the events of fire night, or what happened to Red's family - (regardless of "original" Red of just plain Red if you think there was only ever one).  could be.  We won't know for a while, but I think this person whoever he is, is key somehow.

I think a lot of Red's connections to a lot of questionable people over the years has been hidden by some one or some agency that sees fit to protect that information for some reason. It could be that these various connections were seen as useful to whatever missions he was on at the time. Maybe one of his perceived strengths was his friendships with the world of criminals.