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So, I'm a little late with catching up on this thread, but man, there are so many things to like about this episode.
First of all, the appearance of Panabaker (she had been away for too long) who gives her best performance yet. I wonder whether they just chose the number 86 because it sounded so perfectly when she pronounced in anger.
Julian Gale is a gripping new character. A little weird, like most newly introduced characters, and tenacious to finally catch Reddington, not knowing that he is working with the FBI, which will definitely cause trouble later in this season. It's also really good to see that Ressler's character gets some depth again. He has been mainly out of focus since the end of the Director.
Oh, and the fingerprint. It seems that Ressler or Red had nothing to do with it, so I'm guessing Cooper might have messed with the results to protect the task force, though there are more possibilities.
Red and Dembe are, as said before, an amazing team. I love how Red wants his closest people to know they can get away from him if they want. It makes his character more human. It's also good to see Dembe getting back into action in the end.
Marvin Gerard was one of Red's typical, often humorous people, and it's sad to see he is back in prison now (at least that's what it seems). Fortunately, he did not betray Red.
The only weak point of this episode is probably the Samar/Aram subplot. I liked Samar's story of this episode at first, as it seemed like something new, but in the end it was the usual stuff we had seen before.
There are probably a lot of things I've missed, but it really seems like the writers have brought the show back on track and it's really a shame this episode was just 42 minutes. I wonder what Kaplan is up to next.
Oh BTW, there's something I saw before in this season, which happened again in this episode. Some scenes are shot entirely in a particular colour. In this episode Julian Gale often appeared in a fully blue/grey lit screen. Earlier in this season they used similar tricks (Red locating Kirk's doctor, when the screen was entirely dark, the completely white hotel room in which Red negotiated about the cobalt mine and Natalie Luca who was kept in a violet room). I cannot find a meaning of this, and it's probably just for aesthetic purposes, but I thought it may be worth mentioning. For as far as I know, this was not done in previous seasons.
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Honey West wrote:
Tatiana wrote:
LDJones wrote:
Besides being an accomplice, Kate has also had innocent people killed. Off the top of my head, the argumentative boyfriend last week, and the wife of Red's associate in the hotel in Monaco. Red's bookkeeper may not have been so innocent, but she had him killed as well.
She's definitely going on a tirade and she doesn't seem to be concerned with any kind of 'moral compass'; she's laser focused on taking Red down.
Yeah, but she really seems to be most interested in putting him away forever, not killing him outright. I still question whether she was the poisoner. Something about all of that just doesn't add up, but I can't put my finger on it.
Honey West - interesting. And didn't Kaplan say to Red something like, I knew you'd survive the blast, something like that, referring to the trap that Hunter set. hmmm
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Patter #71 - interesting thought on Katerina/Dom. I guess we'll see, its certainly possible.
On the fingerprint I'm trying to remember who knew about it. I guess Ressler and Samar. Can't recall if Harold did. I tend to think someone more senior than Ressler or Samar had to have intervened with that fingerprint to fake the results. They could fake when/if it was sent it I suppose, but not the results coming back. Which gets me back to my idea of whether Ressler is linked to some behind the scenes who has that ability. Well we know its not Fitch!
Tuxie400 #73 - exactly my thought. So Red's fingerprints match those in the file but whose prints are they really? And why order a set in 1989? And why not have prints from when presumably he entered the Academy or started with Naval intelligence? presumably at least one of those events requires fingerprints.
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Kaplan may see history repeating itself with her decisions re Reddington and trying to clear the way for Liz/Agnes.
I am not sure how Liz disavows the Task Force or what that means since she is part of it.
I truly wonder now what will happen re Liz's reactions, since Kaplan opened a huge can of worms by delivering up those bodies.
Kaplan may have wanted to take down the Task Force along with Red, but she has put Liz in a very precarious position. There is a danger that Liz will be implicated and even, ultimately imprisoned. So Kate is not thinking things through. Like with sending Liz off to Cuba. She ended up putting Liz and Agnes in greater danger.
She may have done the same thing again with her 86 bodies caper. She's no doubt very strong and very clever, as well as very resolute. But it may just be that she is not a strategist after all.
Last edited by lara1 (4/28/2017 7:08 pm)
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Tatiana - that is very exciting that Elise/Janet is in the finale. Will she betray Aram again? Is she somehow involved behind the scenes in this whole thing? Questions, questions.!
I am still pondering what Kate said to Liz about Agnes. It was very obvious that what she said was wrong. Its almost like Kaplan and Red are turning out to have differing views on the same things.
I wonder if this is all a build up to next week an the memory doctor. Will there be a twist when its revealed issues with Kaplan's memory, Red's memory or will Red try to use the doctor against Kaplan in some way
We will all stay tuned! ![]()
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I meant to mention this at the outset but I think it's funny the number of corpses they chose: 86
If you 'eighty-six' something you nix it, you trash it, you get rid of it. Ironic when you're looking at bunch of corpses, eh? Furthermore, 8'x6' is the typical size of a grave: Perhaps the birth of this phrase occurred in death? The last time you can be “86’d” might be when they put you under the ground, as most standard graves are eight feet long and six feet deep.
If you are interested in other etymology of the phrase, here's a good resource.
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Tatiana wrote:
I meant to mention this at the outset but I think it's funny the number of corpses they chose: 86
If you 'eighty-six' something you nix it, you trash it, you get rid of it. Ironic when you're looking at bunch of corpses, eh? Furthermore, 8'x6' is the typical size of a grave: Perhaps the birth of this phrase occurred in death? The last time you can be “86’d” might be when they put you under the ground, as most standard graves are eight feet long and six feet deep.
If you are interested in other etymology of the phrase, here's a good resource.
And don't forget that Maxwell Smart was Agent 86!
It's like when you see the number 42. It's the answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything, according to Douglas Adams. I always got a chuckle that they used it for Mulder's apartment number on X-Files.
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lara1 wrote:
Tatiana - that is very exciting that Elise/Janet is in the finale. Will she betray Aram again? Is she somehow involved behind the scenes in this whole thing? Questions, questions.!
I am still pondering what Kate said to Liz about Agnes. It was very obvious that what she said was wrong. Its almost like Kaplan and Red are turning out to have differing views on the same things.
I wonder if this is all a build up to next week an the memory doctor. Will there be a twist when its revealed issues with Kaplan's memory, Red's memory or will Red try to use the doctor against Kaplan in some way
We will all stay tuned!
Easy peasey, she didn't want to tell her about the car accident. "It's like this, Elizabeth, you just got kidnapped by your maybe-dad; you crashed a plane into the ocean; your other maybe-dad is hunting for you; your new baby keeps getting kidnapped; and oh, then there was the car crash..."
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lara1 wrote:
Patter #71 - interesting thought on Katerina/Dom. I guess we'll see, its certainly possible.
On the fingerprint I'm trying to remember who knew about it. I guess Ressler and Samar. Can't recall if Harold did. I tend to think someone more senior than Ressler or Samar had to have intervened with that fingerprint to fake the results. They could fake when/if it was sent it I suppose, but not the results coming back. Which gets me back to my idea of whether Ressler is linked to some behind the scenes who has that ability. Well we know its not Fitch!
Tuxie400 #73 - exactly my thought. So Red's fingerprints match those in the file but whose prints are they really? And why order a set in 1989? And why not have prints from when presumably he entered the Academy or started with Naval intelligence? presumably at least one of those events requires fingerprints.
It was no match found. Red's fingerprints file has been deleted by someone. I'd bet they are also no longer in his file folder, unless Liz or someone else has that safe somewhere.
I suspect they took a full set of prints right before they sent him off deep undercover or on a particularly dangerous mission that he is still on. They'd need a set of prints to ID his body or see where he'd been, since he never seems to wear gloves, he'd leave fingerprints all over the place.
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Has anyone mentioned that Samar is Red's inside associate? Remember it was Red who 'hired' her. I keep on wondering when that's going to be more evident. It's possible this was it. Remember Red has said his fortress is concentric fortresses. I would assume he has several associates on the inside.
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HaHa Honey West! I am sticking to my memories theory, LOL.. I think the writers put that line in there on purpose....either her memory has been impacted in some way, or she's not being completely truthful. I also think the amnesia thing with Red in ep 15 was leading into the overall memory theme. Who remembers what and when and what is reality? LOL
But then again I love conspiracy theories, LOL!. ![]()
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So something just occurred to me.
When Red gets a lead on Kaplan, that leads him to a hotel she stayed at, that then leads him to the driver who picked her up in the truck, he goes to ask the driver where he took Kaplan.
Red does this by faking that he's looking for his elderly family member who has memory issues, and the driver counters by saying that his mother suffered from dementia:
Red: We found her car in a ravine along with her medication. Sweet as pie, Kate. And still fairly sharp when she’s on her meds. But without those pills–
Begby: My ma had dementia before the cancer got her.
So - just some interesting symmetrical writing, or something more of a clue? hmmmm
Last edited by lara1 (4/28/2017 10:04 pm)
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The Yeti #86 - I enjoyed your observations about the episode. Wasn't that the fastest 42 minutes ever!
Tatiana - I kept thinking there had to some reason for 86 bodies. Thanks for pointing out the significance of the number 86. I didn't remember that to 86 something meant to get rid of it. And you are right about the standard size of a grave - 8 feet long and 6 feet deep.
lara1 - Yes, I think The Apothecary was foreshadowing this memory issue thing and the memory doctor.
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Tuxie400 #93 - some of us have been speculating whether Red has more general memory loss or if his memories had been tampered with - what he can't remember, what he doesn't have answers to because he can't remember. i wonder if the amnesia thing was also leading up to that.
I guess we'll find out next week. I can't believe we only have a few weeks left in the season!
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Tatiana wrote:
Has anyone mentioned that Samar is Red's inside associate? Remember it was Red who 'hired' her. I keep on wondering when that's going to be more evident. It's possible this was it. Remember Red has said his fortress is concentric fortresses. I would assume he has several associates on the inside.
That's a very good point. I almost forget she was placed there by Red, she's been there for so long.
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Honey West wrote:
Tatiana wrote:
Has anyone mentioned that Samar is Red's inside associate? Remember it was Red who 'hired' her. I keep on wondering when that's going to be more evident. It's possible this was it. Remember Red has said his fortress is concentric fortresses. I would assume he has several associates on the inside.
That's a very good point. I almost forget she was placed there by Red, she's been there for so long.
I think Red has his tentacles on far more than Samar. Aram is almost dedicated to a T to his Mr. Reddington. Liz is still in a stupor regarding Red - she tried insinuating herself into his life last week by disallowing visits (thank gawd) to Agnes. Ressler has newfound respect for RR as he's seen just how much respect this man has in both worlds (legal & crime). Harold has become a posturing self-involved bag of gas. He's the most cartoon-like character in the play.
The most interesting revelation might be Julian Gale. He's been off the program for years - now he suddenly shows up at the hockey arena - takes charge as if he's got Reddington in his ear. The way he handled that rookie cop was very, very Reddington. Lots of language, lots of example. He was remarkable red-like at the scene - - - - -and topping it off by bringing Mr. Always Too Late Ressler into the thing!
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Some observations, thoughts, in no particular order of importance, and in no particular order in the episode:
Liz's scar - she's in the car on the phone talking with Red, she's using her right hand; there is a thick dark pink mark on the inside of her wrist. They haven't paid attention to her scar pretty much since the beginning; I think it's going to tie in with Kaplan's big reveal.
NOTHING - half way through the show is an overhead shot spanning a large spanse of buildings. On the top of one in white letters is the word "NOTHING"
Red: With you down for the count the last few days, I’ve felt the consequences of your absence on my soul. Dembe really does provide a guiding force for Red's soul.
The box - "At any point of your own choosing, I’ll insist that you do. No questions asked, no debts accrued, with our friendship intact and flourishing. For we’ll have new lands to discover. Not as coworkers, but as cohorts. Whether that’s today or tomorrow or 10 years from now, that’s when you open the box."
I bet that's one of the last scenes when they end the series, Dembe opening his box.
Every criminal's dream - "You survived a gunshot to the head. Lord knows how. That’s the mother-loving lottery right there." You survived what no one else has, you won the lottery, you're free, from Reddington, from the life. Go.
Vienna - Liz: She finally turned. Kaplan’s headed to Vienna.
Raymond's intent is to go there too but Cooper puts a kabash on the idea. Is it Vienna just because it's a neutral state or is there something more that Kaplan and Red can do there?
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Tatiana - good observation on the box. However the series ends, dembe opens the box.
Red and Vienna etc - well I think it odd since when does Red listen to Cooper?! Lol
He must feel the situation to be grave so better to toe the line? But he does seem going off with dembe to find Kaplan anyway - after supper of course! Hopefully not a last one.
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Good observations, Tatiana. I hope I can finally get in a complete rewatch this weekend.
"Nothing", there was a tweet a couple days ago to watch for an Easter egg in what seems like a stock shot of buildings. I think you found it. Now what does it mean?
Liz's scar has to pop back up in the story eventually. It was very important in the Pilot. Kaplan has more to do with the early story than we've seen that has to do with the scar, the fire, the bunny and the Fulcrum. If Red stole the Fulcrum and was the one arguing with Katarina, and if it was Kate who sewed it into the bunny after the fire then wouldn't Red have been the one who gave Kate the Fulcrum to hide? Does that imply an earlier connection between Red and Kate as we suspect? Who really gave Liz that scar? ![]()
I like your idea of Dembe and the box being the last scene.
Marvin hit the nail on the head with Kate. But Kate can't stay away. Red's the flame and everyone else are moths.
Vienna was the setting for The Third Man. I think Red has been likened to Harry Lime in the past. I'll have to look into that. Vienna also is a convenient jumping off point for old Czechoslovakia and old Yugoslavia. At the end Kate had arriv d in Milan on her way to Vienna.
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Honey West - I never saw The Third Man despite the fact that my mother taught it in her film studies class. I'm certainly familiar with the iconic zither music :-)