The Blacklist Refugees » Episode 4.17 Requiem

Honey West · 4/21/2017 1:25 am

lara1 wrote:
OK so why is Kate calling him the American? is she not American? just seems a bit odd.

Mostly I think that is to tie in with Katarina's journal entry about The American. Since they were in Canada, maybe she was differentiating him from the others? How many languages did Kate speak? For all we know she and Katarina could have been conversing in Russian. But I did catch that she referred to Alexander, not Constantin. But the newspaper article said she was married to billionaire "Constantine". So why call him Alexander to Kate?

Honey West · 4/21/2017 1:34 am

LDJones wrote:
The actor playing Sam looked almost like James Spader...

They really worked to make him look younger. Plus it was interesting how they shot Spader to also take him back in time. I think they did some work in post to help sell it. I remember them talking about what they can do. When Liz was suffocating in the box they actually took some of the color out of her face in post. So you do what you can with makeup, lighting and cinematography, then you finish it up in post production. Not bad!

Honey West · 4/21/2017 3:41 am

Wow, so much to process!
We got a sort of condensed version of the story of Red and Katarina from her POV. Red's version is a bit more embellished to put him in a better light. Goes to show there are two sides to every story. But Katarina pretty much corroborates what Kirk told Liz. Still, she must have fabricated the DNA test for Kirk.I thought she said "It doesn't matter, I never loved Raymond", but what she said was she knew she would never end up with Raymond. In fact she says she doesn't know about love, but she finds her affair with Raymond to be exciting, dangerous, frivolous. She never knew who Masha's father really was. We know it wasn't Constantin. Could have been Red. But how many other "assignments" did Katarina have at that time? That, we don't know. But if it was only Red, then he's it. Confirmed that Constantin didn't know Katarina's secret job working for KGB.

So, Katarina was the one who started pulling away and Red didn't take it well. Red kidnapped Masha, took her to America. The Two K's followed. Katarina confronted Red and they had a fight and the fire happened. Katarina got Masha out of the house and back to the motel. Masha was holding her wrist part of the time. So Liz had her burn scar. Katarina tells Masha, in Russian, that it was okay, he was a bad man. So it sounds like the shooting by Liz really did happen. Katarina goes to Cape May and, wanted by two government spy agencies, disappears. But she tells Kate to take Masha to Sam Milhoan. So KR knew Sam too? That was a surprise.

So we have quite a few loose ends, as usual. lara1 pointed out the put her in my arms as an infant line, if they never even met until after Annie was killed; which begs the question about the line where Red told her he didn't know how she looked because he was away at the time, once again according to tonight they hadn't met yet; how did Kate just happen to apply for the nanny job with Katarina? I'm sure we still don't have the whole story. We have a sequence of events, but not details of what happened. There's probably a lot more.

But the bottom line is we have a perfect Big Bad to oppose Red at long last! I think she'll try to kill him if she has to, but I am thinking that by digging up all of those bodies she may be looking to put him in prison for the rest of his life, or let the system take him out for her. Kate is as wiley and relentless as he is and this story arc could easily last well into the next season, much like Berlin's did. We still don't know why Liz is special special, we don't know Red's origins or why it was so incredibly dangerous for his name to be known as maybe being Liz's father. Even Katarina said that would endanger Masha. So there is still plenty of mystery here.

But it looks like Mr. Kaplan is embarking on her biggest cleaning job ever. Mopping the floor with Raymond Reddington, in order to remove him from Liz and Agnes' lives for good. Since she failed when she tried to remove them from Red, she's going to have to remove him from them.

Patter · 4/21/2017 5:28 am

Honey West wrote:
Wow, so much to process!
We got a sort of condensed version of the story of Red and Katarina from her POV. Red's version is a bit more embellished to put him in a better light. Goes to show there are two sides to every story. But Katarina pretty much corroborates what Kirk told Liz. Still, she must have fabricated the DNA test for Kirk.I thought she said "It doesn't matter, I never loved Raymond", but what she said was she knew she would never end up with Raymond. In fact she says she doesn't know about love, but she finds her affair with Raymond to be exciting, dangerous, frivolous. She never knew who Masha's father really was. We know it wasn't Constantin. Could have been Red. But how many other "assignments" did Katarina have at that time? That, we don't know. But if it was only Red, then he's it. Confirmed that Constantin didn't know Katarina's secret job working for KGB.

So, Katarina was the one who started pulling away and Red didn't take it well. Red kidnapped Masha, took her to America. The Two K's followed. Katarina confronted Red and they had a fight and the fire happened. Katarina got Masha out of the house and back to the motel. Masha was holding her wrist part of the time. So Liz had her burn scar. Katarina tells Masha, in Russian, that it was okay, he was a bad man. So it sounds like the shooting by Liz really did happen. Katarina goes to Cape May and, wanted by two government spy agencies, disappears. But she tells Kate to take Masha to Sam Milhoan. So KR knew Sam too? That was a surprise.

So we have quite a few loose ends, as usual. lara1 pointed out the put her in my arms as an infant line, if they never even met until after Annie was killed; which begs the question about the line where Red told her he didn't know how she looked because he was away at the time, once again according to tonight they hadn't met yet; how did Kate just happen to apply for the nanny job with Katarina? I'm sure we still don't have the whole story. We have a sequence of events, but not details of what happened. There's probably a lot more.

But the bottom line is we have a perfect Big Bad to oppose Red at long last! I think she'll try to kill him if she has to, but I am thinking that by digging up all of those bodies she may be looking to put him in prison for the rest of his life, or let the system take him out for her. Kate is as wiley and relentless as he is and this story arc could easily last well into the next season, much like Berlin's did. We still don't know why Liz is special special, we don't know Red's origins or why it was so incredibly dangerous for his name to be known as maybe being Liz's father. Even Katarina said that would endanger Masha. So there is still plenty of mystery here.

But it looks like Mr. Kaplan is embarking on her biggest cleaning job ever. Mopping the floor with Raymond Reddington, in order to remove him from Liz and Agnes' lives for good. Since she failed when she tried to remove them from Red, she's going to have to remove him from them.

I noticed Masha was holding her wrist too!!!!

Patter · 4/21/2017 8:18 am

One thing I didn't quite grasp is if Kate is actually Russian (or if it was just the actress' accent)? The beginning of the episode opens with a young Kate (maybe age 7-10) and she and the father appeared American.
Was Katarina hiding in Canada? Was that Summer Palace? And did Kat ever say the name of the man she fought with in the kitchen? Finally, did we ever see Kirk? At first that's who I thought the guy in the kitchen was.

Have a lot of questions!

Big Badd Bazzer · 4/21/2017 8:20 am

Red has to skate to that hockey arena like the dickens - in order to cover up Mr. Kaplan's plan to expose the bodies! Don't think Kate is unhinged - she's just focused on her duties to Liz - and now Little Aggy.

Pretty much flushed out the origin of Mr. Kaplan last night - that was FANTASTIC - and a big shout-out to Joanna Alder for a marvellous portrayal of Young Kate (Kathryn Nemec)

Red knows exactly who he's dealing with in Kate - only problem - he KNOWS EXACTLY WHO HE'S DEALING WITH . . .
Kate knows most of Red's secrets (as his cleaner), knows his contact list and is obviously able to assemble workable teams to confront Red.
Her only vulnerability(s) is her continued problems with migraines and her skull which is neither here nor there to Red. The BIG VULNERABLE IS LIZ AND/OR AGNES.

Tuxie400 · 4/21/2017 8:35 am

lara1 wrote:
Tatiana wrote:
lara1 wrote:
OK so what happened to Red putting Liz in Kate's arms as a baby?
Serious continuity problem here.

Yes, and in Mato, when kate mentioned Annie and what happened to her, when Red said, you know I don't know, that I was away, it made it sound like they already were working together or something. It now sounds like all he meant was that was the period of time during which he was off the radar??

It's not a continuity problem if Red is Katerina. That's the only way it makes sense.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/21/2017 9:32 am)

Tatiana · 4/21/2017 8:37 am

Laocoon wrote:
Great episodes and great casting. The bodies and the hotel room remind me of the Stewmaker.

Open questions for me are, why is Liz/Masha so important? No context given, in spite of all the reveals.

Completely agree. They knocked it out of the park for both episodes. And Stewmaker similarities are certainly there.

Tuxie400 · 4/21/2017 8:40 am

Honey West wrote:
lara1 wrote:
OK so why is Kate calling him the American? is she not American? just seems a bit odd.

Mostly I think that is to tie in with Katarina's journal entry about The American. Since they were in Canada, maybe she was differentiating him from the others? How many languages did Kate speak? For all we know she and Katarina could have been conversing in Russian. But I did catch that she referred to Alexander, not Constantin. But the newspaper article said she was married to billionaire "Constantine". So why call him Alexander to Kate?

Honey West - I noticed she called her husband Alexander too. It seems strange she wouldn't have called him Constantin.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/21/2017 8:47 am)

Tatiana · 4/21/2017 8:43 am

I still think there's another side to this story. It does not make sense that Kate didn't know Red until after fire night. If we ever see the events through Red's perspective, I think we will see a completely different picture. It was interesting to see Katarina as being more fickle and careless about love. After Cape May she seemed so gentle and likeable. This filled out her character as a double agent/spy who betrays both countries and lots of men. The dynamic between Kate and Katarina is deeper than I had thought it to be.

Need to watch again lots of times! Wow, they really gave us some meat to chew on!

Tuxie400 · 4/21/2017 8:50 am

Honey West and Patter - I didn't notice Masha holding her wrist. In fact, I kept wondering why she wasn't in more pain and why Kate wasn't tending to her wound.

Tuxie400 · 4/21/2017 9:26 am

Tatiana wrote:
I still think there's another side to this story. It does not make sense that Kate didn't know Red until after fire night. If we ever see the events through Red's perspective, I think we will see a completely different picture. It was interesting to see Katarina as being more fickle and careless about love. After Cape May she seemed so gentle and likeable. This filled out her character as a double agent/spy who betrays both countries and lots of men. The dynamic between Kate and Katarina is deeper than I had thought it to be.

Need to watch again lots of times! Wow, they really gave us some meat to chew on!

I agree that this Kateaina was very different from Cape May Katerina. But in this episode we see her through Kate's eyes. (Mr. Kaplan is emotionally not normal. I've always thought she might be on the Autism spectrum.) I didn't like this Katarina much. I found her comment about Raymond being an assignment and the affair to be "frivolous" to be very cold and calculating. And forbidding Kate from loving the baby - that was a bit creepy too.

Tuxie400 · 4/21/2017 9:31 am

If Kate had minimal association with Reddington as portrayed in Requiem, it doesn't make sense to me that Reddington would offer her a job. Had Katerina told him about Kate's "cleaning" abilities? Why do you hire a nanny to be your right hand in a criminal operation? Was it because she knew Sam had Lizzie, and he wanted to make sure Kate didn't tell anyone?

Patter · 4/21/2017 9:32 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Honey West and Patter - I didn't notice Masha holding her wrist. In fact, I kept wondering why she wasn't in more pain and why Kate wasn't tending to her wound.

Masha is sitting on the hotel bed and looks down and I believe runs her other hand over her wrist. But you are right, she showed no pain. Maybe that's why she is so special, she cannot feel anything?!

Colleen · 4/21/2017 9:51 am

Great episodes and great thoughts from everyone!!

Only thing I can add to the discussion is that maybe Kate is Canadian. That could explain her describing Red as an American.

Honey West · 4/21/2017 9:54 am

Patter wrote:
One thing I didn't quite grasp is if Kate is actually Russian (or if it was just the actress' accent)? The beginning of the episode opens with a young Kate (maybe age 7-10) and she and the father appeared American.
Was Katarina hiding in Canada? Was that Summer Palace? And did Kat ever say the name of the man she fought with in the kitchen? Finally, did we ever see Kirk? At first that's who I thought the guy in the kitchen was.

Have a lot of questions!

Young Kirk is listed in the credits, so he was there.

Colleen · 4/21/2017 9:57 am

My fingers are crossed that Baz adopted MM's dog...

Honey West · 4/21/2017 10:02 am

Tuxie400 wrote:
Tatiana wrote:
I still think there's another side to this story. It does not make sense that Kate didn't know Red until after fire night. If we ever see the events through Red's perspective, I think we will see a completely different picture. It was interesting to see Katarina as being more fickle and careless about love. After Cape May she seemed so gentle and likeable. This filled out her character as a double agent/spy who betrays both countries and lots of men. The dynamic between Kate and Katarina is deeper than I had thought it to be.

Need to watch again lots of times! Wow, they really gave us some meat to chew on!
I agree that this Kateaina was very different from Cape May Katerina. But in this episode we see her through Kate's eyes. (Mr. Kaplan is emotionally not normal. I've always thought she might be on the Autism spectrum.) I didn't like this Katarina much. I found her comment about Raymond being an assignment and the affair to be "frivolous" to be very cold and calculating. And forbidding Kate from loving the baby - that was a bit creepy too.

That's because "this" Katarina was the real Katarina and Cape May's Katarina was a product of Red's drugged out imagination and even he didn't recognize her. Maybe like Red with women, Katarina had the ability to make men feel like they were the center of her universe. Many faces to many people. Kirk's comment to Red that "you remember what she did, but not who she was."

Honey West · 4/21/2017 10:13 am

I think this show is full of people who were messed up since childhood who seem to have all found one another for some extremely toxic adult relationships.

Another thing with the Kate/Red meeting in the warehouse was that it seems to have taken place well after Red went criminal and was selling secrets. In our timeline that would have been around 1994, right?

Tatiana · 4/21/2017 10:15 am

Ok, I was trying to reconcile what Aram said about Kate's history and what we know from the episode. If Kate's mother died in 1962, how old do you think Kate is?

Kathryn Nemec is missing?

Yeah, she disappeared in 1991, just dropped off the grid. Lived at a few addresses in the Midwest in her 30s. Worked at an exclusive domestic staffing agency, but then one day she’s just gone. And there is no more record.

You say this Nemec, she’s the one who was attacking Reddington?

Dembe seemed to think so. But she’s been missing for 25 years.

Last edited by Tatiana (4/21/2017 10:16 am)