I hope we see katarina. Maybe a aeason finale cliffhanger where we see a glimpse of her at the end.

Tatiana wrote:

Tuxie400 wrote:

Interesting thought, Homey West! I was also thinking Alexander might be Rostov's real middle name. 

I was thinking more about Katarina's "death" and did some digging into the forensics of what happens to a body that drowns in the ocean. My assumption was the body would have to emerge and wash back to shore eventually. What I found was just that. First the body would sink to the ocean floor in a semi fetal pose, no matter how deep the water or how swift the current Then, depending on the temperature, it would rise back up to the surface in the general vicinity of where it went down. This would happen anywhere from a few hours later to a few weeks later. The warmer the water, the quicker the body would rise. At temperatures of 40 degrees or below, it would take two weeks or more. From this location the water may then carry the corpse along for quite a distance, depending on the strength of the currents or if it becomes ensnared on something. Given the Science, it would seem eventually KR's body would have been discovered. I really don't think she died.

 

Tuxie - I agree completely!

I'm even more convinced that Katarina is alive. You explain it from a forensic standpoint which is compelling. I remember many years ago during the tragic Laci Peterson case that her body and that of her unborn son showed up on shore 3-4 months after her 'disappearance'. I was glued to the case. She was 8 months pregnant and they had already named their unborn son, Conner. Her husband must have killed her while she was in their swimming pool, he dumped her body out to sea. Here's a clip from intouchweekly:

'...a couple walking their dog spotted a decomposing body of a late-term male fetus on the beach in Richmond, CA. The next day, the body of a recently pregnant woman washed up on the shore nearby, at this point, Laci, who was eight months pregnant at the time of her disappearance, had been missing since Dec. 23, 2002. Shortly thereafter, the body was identified to be Laci, and the fetus was confirmed to be her unborn son, whom they planned to name Conner.'

Pretty horrific story, but it reminded me that eventually some part of the body usually does appear. In Laci's case, it looked like she had been tethered to some type of anchor.
There is so much haziness around Katarina's ultimate demise, and there's a reason for it, she's alive. 

Furthermore, I'm beginning to think that somehow Red and Katarina had some kind of plan together. I really think they were in love. When Kate asked Katarina, "Is it serious" Katarina replies, "Yes" then she goes on to say it's frivolous. Well, serious and frivolous are antonyms Her first unfettered response was her true feeling. 


 

 More GMTA! I was going to mention Laci Peterson. I was in Berkeley the Saturday before the bodies washed up. There was a terrific storm that weekend and since I wasn't driving I could really look at the water of SF Bay as we drove past late that afternoon. The waters were rougher than I'd ever seen, all grey and wild, with the late afternoon sun peeking out from under the clouds and almost backlighting the waves. Gloomy day and wild with that golden bright light shining underneath. A Hollywood production couldn't have done better at making it so dramatic and wonderful. As we drove past I remember thinking that if Laci was out there then that storm would bring her up if anything could. And it did.

Honey West wrote:

Tuxie400 wrote:

Honey West - Earlier you wrote: "Kate showed a very early interest in what happened to dead bodies back when her mother died. And in med school she found them "compelling". I wonder if an unhealthy interest in them got her kicked out of med school?"

Did necrophilia pop into your mind when she was talking about the unhealthy interest in cadavers?  It did in mine when I was rewatching. That would have gotten her kicked out of medical school.

 
Yes. As creepy as she was acting that is exactly what popped into my mind. (boardhost needs a real good emoji for "ew!")

... these emojis work for me!!!!

lara1 #179, 180.
I'm inclined to think they may have gone there to hatch a plan, too. Red may have been just out of the hospital by then, or did one of his famous sudden exits from a medical facility just when you thought he should rest up and take it easy for awhile longer things. He's done that often enough that it's probably just what he does. So if he was at Cape May to make a plan that may jive with what Dom said about how his plan went wrong and cost him his family.

On the other hand, he might have gotten word that she was depressed and suicidal after his supposed death in the fire two months earlier. And had gone to Cape May to commit suicide. She could have planned to have Sam bring Masha to her there and planned to take her with her. Of course the plan could have been to take Masha and disappear, faking the suicide in order to give them cover from the authorities that were coming for her.

In fact it would work either way, intended suicide or planned fake suicide. the question becomes who was involved besides Katarina, Masha and Sam. In the Cape May deleted scenes we see Sam and Liz walking on a beach. For a long time this didn't make any sense to me, but it is crystal clear now that we know that by that time Liz had already gone to Sam AND that Sam knew Katarina.i am leaning towards Red being in on something only because what he was imagining he saw at Cape May was based on his own thoughts and memories of past events. But we don't know the exact context of what he was remembering. His was not a true flashback, it was a flashback memory. And there is a big difference in the two. The former being exposition of actual events and the latter being how someone thinks they remember those events.
I'll just send this because with customers in and out I lost my train of thought!

Now I remember what I was going to say. I think Sam called Red and told him that he was taking Liz to her mother in Cape May. Red would've leapt from his hospital bed at that! I suspect Sam was in on Red playing dead, if that's what he was doing. I'll have to think over this whole scenario again, because I think I may see how some of the threads might go together....

Last edited by Honey West (4/23/2017 5:35 pm)

Honey West wrote:

lara1 #179, 180.
I'm inclined to think they may have gone there to hatch a plan, too ------
Of course the plan could have been to take Masha and disappear, faking the suicide in order to give them cover from the authorities that were coming for her.

The question becomes who was involved besides Katarina, Masha and Sam. In the Cape May deleted scenes we see Sam and Liz walking on a beach. For a long time this didn't make any sense to me, but it is crystal clear now that we know that by that time Liz had already gone to Sam AND that Sam knew Katarina.i am leaning towards Red being in on something only because what he was imagining he saw at Cape May was based on his own thoughts and memories of past events.------

I think Sam called Red and told him that he was taking Liz to her mother in Cape May. Red would've leapt from his hospital bed at that! I suspect Sam was in on Red playing dead, if that's what he was doing. I'll have to think over this whole scenario again, because I think I may see how some of the threads might go together....

Hey! I didn't know there was a deleted scene of Sam and Liz walking on the beach! That's huge. Was there anything else that was deleted from Cape May?

I think Katarina and Red were in love, that they conceived a child together, that because of their positions they could not possibly let anyone know who the child was. They were ok with their lifestyle for a while but Katarina stopped letting Red see Masha. Because of that Raymond kidnapped the child, afraid that she would be in danger otherwise or that he would not see her anymore. 

When Kate asked Katarina, "Is it serious" Katarina first says YES. Yes, Red and Kat are serious. Does Katarina not really realize how much she loves Raymond?

It turns out she's a double agent. So while he was her assignment he also wasn't her assignment. But someone found out about them and Red stole the fulcrum. Without it, he would have been put in a hole, put away for life, never to hear from or see anyone, including his daughter. With the fulcrum, he could go underground, he could stay alive. As long as they believed he had the fulcrum, he could stay alive.
 

I just finished watching the episode.  Here are some minor things i picked up:

- when Kate first meets with Sam at his house, that checkered mug is on the table - either the same one we have seen before, or something very like it.  So we have seen it:
At Dom's house, with Red
At the bar in Cuba, with Kaplan and Red
At Sam's with Sam and Kaplan
Reading this from bottom to top, does that thread into a connection with Dom and Kaplan?

-Kaplan is playing Go Fish with Liz in the hotel room. Reminded me of Tom's comment to Red in season 3 when Red summons Tom to tell him not to marry Liz. Tom at first says to him, so why did you ask me here, to play Go Fish?  Something like that.  In addition to it being a fishing reference

- Kate wearing plaid when she dreams of when Red first asked her to work for him and then when the cop interrogates her

- piano music playing as Kate remembers first driving to meet KR

- the smokey bunny is on the hotel room table AFTER Kate has left Kate with Sam, when KR calls from Cape May - presumably far from Nebraska - or was the fire in Nebraska?  I looked for clues as to where that hotel room was (and hence fire house) but couldn't find any.  But KR originally said to take Liz to Sam in Kearney, Nebraska so I think it had to be out of state.  And fire house closer to DC. maybe  So Liz left behind her sooty bunny ?

- and on the bunny, did anyone notice that it seemed to be considerably sootier than the bunny in the box Sam had?  That one had some soil but was clearly whiter.  Mistake or on purpose?

- burgundy color everywhere -  Kate wearing it when she first interviews with KR; KR and Kate both wearing it in the scene where Kate is holding baby Liz in the summer. Palace: KR, calling from Cape May, and Kate at the ice rink, when talking to Red

- anyone notice if that was a cadillac which drove KR to the summer palace when she returns from a trip?  I could not tell

So i watched the scene where KR brings Liz to the hotel room several times.

I saw nothing to show a scar on Liz's wrist. At one point she puts up both her hands to push back her hair, its hard to see, but to me it looks like no scar/ wound, only a sooty arm.   And. Katerina was not burned on her back.  In fact there was nothing but a rip at the shoulder of her sweater.

When Liz and Kate are playing Go Fish a week later, there is nothing to show a bandage on a wrist wound. Just a long sleeved sweater. Also, in that scene, Kaplan in fact is holding Liz by her wrists at one
Point, where she is talking to her .  I would have thought that would be painful for Liz if she had a fresh burn.

In the hotel room after the fire, Liz does hold her wrist briefly but that's more like she is just clasping her hands on her bunny which is on her lap. Plus wouldnt it be painful to grasp a new burn with raw skin?

Great thoughts! I'll try to work in a re-watch of Cape May this week.

What still bothers me: did the current version of Raymond replace the real Raymond Reddington (a la that episode in BL Redemption) on fire night? Is it possible that they were both in the burning house? And Liz shot the real one. Is it possible that KR knows that RR was "replaced." That would add fuel to her battle, plus the "replacement" is not Liz's biological father, but he is her father in name.

Back to earlier speculations: so maybe the replacement RR knew that the real Reddington had originally hired Kate to keep an eye on KR and the child. He decided that she would be an asset and met with her, keeping his face hidden so that he could determine whether she saw through his identity. I think eventually she figured it out, so that's another secret she knows and why Raymond might not keep her alive.

And I still think Liz carries the Warrior gene (or some such), and if Tom has it, too, then Agnes is going to be very, very valuable.


 

lara1 - I thought Young Kate was wearing plaid at all three scenes at the Summer Palace. Tessa would say something is not is what it seems with her.

I thought it was weird the bunny did not go with Liz to Sam's. How did it get there with the Fulcrum in it? You are right that it is much sootier than the one grownup Liz had. Maybe Kate tried to clean it and then sent it to Sam.

Maybe the set designer just likes that checked mug. Up till now there seems to be no connection with Dom. But stay tuned!

Honey Wet #188 - interesting thought re sam and Liz on the beach. But I'm not sure how old Liz was meant to be in that scene - maybe a few years older?  I think it was the same actress that played little Lizzie in Luther Braxton.   I guesswe'll never know as it was cut!