The Blacklist Refugees » 4.17 Requiem - EW article, Bokenkamp, Mr. Kaplan, two photos

Tuxie400 · 4/19/2017 11:54 pm

lara1 wrote:
And that scene with Liz and Katarina - it looks like liz is in the same nightgown as the scene with kaplan, i.e. post-fire, the sleeve looks sooty. Ooohhh.

Why is Liz in the sooty nightgown, but Kaplan and Katarina get fresh clothes? Weird.

Honey West · 4/20/2017 12:09 am

I don't think we ever saw Katarina in the house once it was on fire. I'd bet she left after Red was shot. My best guess is that once the fire started that Red and Liz were maybe the only ones left inside the house and that maybe Red was the only one who knew Liz was hiding in the closet. After she fired the gun didn't she scream and run? She may have run back to hide in the closet. When K was telling the men to search the house maybe it wasn't the Fulcrum they were looking for, maybe it was Liz? Or both. But they thought she got out and left? Maybe Katarina went to get Kate because Kate had a medical background? I think the fire was either set or let go to hide the body. But he wasn't dead. I seem to remember thinking he was actually moving in one of the flashbacks, but it's been so long since I watched those, I'm not positive now. He could have been able to just get Liz out. Maybe he went back for the Fulcrum and then got burned? I am thinking that we have assumed that they thought he was shot and killed, but what if they knew he was only wounded and that's why Katarina left, to get medical help, and the others set the fire? She came back to a burning house with Kate. Red gets Liz out, goes back in, the roof collapses (or whatever) the women think he's killed by the fire and are forced to leave before he somehow gets out. Somebody had to find him and get him to help, but who? Well, anyway, we should know tomorrow, I guess. This is my last best guess! LOL!

Last edited by Honey West (4/20/2017 12:20 am)

Honey West · 4/20/2017 1:09 am

Okay, now this is a truly crazy idea, but thought I'd toss it out there. Back when they were filming The Apothecary, I recall someone had taken some photos that were posted on Aly's site. The caption said that the photographer had thought that he'd seen Jon Voight. That post has stuck in the back of my head ever since. There is absolutely zero evidence, zero, but what if he turned up in the story? I can't think of anyone better who could play Red's father. He and Brian Dennehy are the same age for the "parent generation". Eh? Think about it. That could be a real twist for the biggest bad yet.

But, most likely, this can be filed under Honey West's List of the Wildest, Least Likely, Crazy Ideas of the Season files. LOL!

Honey West · 4/20/2017 2:53 am

Just a few observations on the long clip. Kate is wearing different glasses when she is telling Red he shouldn't insert himself back into Liz's life. Same ones where she is in the car probably as Red is strolling towards FBI headquarters. I think Dembe is in the drivers seat. The other shot with the fuller hair and dark rimmed glasses is from a different time, but not the '80's. I'm starting to wonder if he actually hears from her tomorrow or if these are all flashbacks.

The Summer Palace has a couple of RCMP cars in front of it that look like from fire time, we also see a quick glimpse from the back of young Kate watching the cops who are in the house.

Katarina has either soot or bruises on her face and neck when she is with sooty Masha. Not sure who she is fighting with in the kitchen, but I think she is making out with Red in the backseat of a car in another shot.

Interesting how the final shot is Red's "Everything about me is a lie." line

There is a quick shot of a cop with a flashlight looking at an old trailer hitched up to an old pickup truck. Couldn't tell if it was the same pickup that stopped for Kate.

Tuxie400 · 4/20/2017 8:00 am

Honey West - I think Kaplan calls Red in real time. There was a Gobal promo from 3 a.m. where Kaplan tells Red he put her down like a mad dog. Jon Voight would be a great choice for Red's dad! My wild theory is that Dom is the major big bad,

lara1 · 4/20/2017 8:14 am

Wow, interesting ideas. You know, along the way two very different ideas have popped into my head:

The argument the night of the fire was Elizabeth,s and not Masha's, parents - that's if you believe that there are two girls, two Lizzies or something like that.

Red's father was actually Liz's father - only because whoever put her in the closet was an older man.

Of course these are just guesses and may not be the case at all!

Also - that Katarina may not have been at fire house until later - Liz recalled seeing her father in the memory episodes, but she never recalled her mother which I thought was odd. Then with the Connolly recall, she said "hurting her" not "my mother". The woman arguing with the man in silhouette seems to be short. I've often thought it was Kaplan but it could be anybody. I guess what I'm saying is that Katerina may have been there but not in the role we have thought, or maybe not there the entire time.

LOL its driving me a bit crazy!!

Last edited by lara1 (4/20/2017 8:23 am)

lara1 · 4/20/2017 8:17 am

So I'm thinking something happened at hte summer palace that was covered up.

The cop and the trailer - I wonder if that harkens back to the cop in Cape May. I think I'm inclined to think the cop was real, but equally he may have been part of the entire hallucination. Maybe not!

Tuxie400 - Kate looks a bit different to me but that may be just lighting. The phone originally threw me off as its not a modern cellphone. But I read somewhere where someone mentioned it may be a satellite phone.
It looks like it could be one. And then the question is, where in the world is Kate that she needs a satellite phone - ? ship? plane? just another country or somewhere else out of reach of cellphone service?

Last edited by lara1 (4/20/2017 8:18 am)

lara1 · 4/20/2017 8:30 am

Honey West #84 - I think the person in the car with Katarina (whether or not its Red) may be the same person on the floor in the fire memories. That looked like Red too. But he may or may not have had his hair the same back then. The interesting thing to me is that Katarina seems distracted in that scene, she is looking out of the car at something else maybe? LOL

Last edited by lara1 (4/20/2017 8:31 am)

Honey West · 4/20/2017 10:14 am

Wow, Tuxie I didn't see that globaltv promo. I guess that's how Kate sees it. She's had awhile to think about it. I get the idea that someone thinks of Red as a "mad dog" too, these days, that is out of control. We also had that description of Berlin by Fitch who said he'd "chewed through his leash."

I wasn't sure if that was a travel trailer like an Airstream or if it was a horse trailer. The cop reminded me of the RCMP in the other scene. But could be anywhere or any time.

That would be interesting if it was Dom. If not him, then I am thinking someone from that "pack" he was escaping from. Lots of dog references.

lara1 · 4/20/2017 10:40 am

Well this all has me thinking. Is the big bad someone who is close to Kate? Who went absolutely crazy when he/she found out what Red had done. And who now id after Red and is now an ally of Kate and helping her? Hmmm

Several phone calls on several promos - hard to tell which is which and when things are being said.

I do note however that in one of those calls Kate is wearing that deep red/ burgundy color. Connection with Naomi, Scottie, Katerina?

Patter · 4/20/2017 10:42 am

lara1 wrote:
Honey West #84 - I think the person in the car with Katarina (whether or not its Red) may be the same person on the floor in the fire memories. That looked like Red too. But he may or may not have had his hair the same back then. The interesting thing to me is that Katarina seems distracted in that scene, she is looking out of the car at something else maybe? LOL

Lara, looks like the same guy to me too!

Tatiana · 4/20/2017 10:43 am

Honey West wrote:
Wow, Tuxie I didn't see that globaltv promo. I guess that's how Kate sees it. She's had awhile to think about it. I get the idea that someone thinks of Red as a "mad dog" too, these days, that is out of control. We also had that description of Berlin by Fitch who said he'd "chewed through his leash."
...Lots of dog references.

Very astute observation, HW. that 'mad dog' kept clanging in my mind for some reason or another. And it makes sense now that you mention the 'chewed through his leash' line by Fitch.

Well, from all these promos it looks like Mr. Kaplan is the big bad right now . And she has everything at her disposal to do so. Will Dembe join her? or will he remain loyal to Red?

Bokenkamp keeps reminding us that Red is a murderer. In other words, James Spader does a splendid job of seducing us to love him by his enchanting presence, but he's a criminal . He kills people. He shot his most trusted friend, Kate.

I think Red needs some more family therapy. He doesn't seem to understand the give and take of relationships.

Tuxie400 · 4/20/2017 11:27 am

Honey West wrote:
Wow, Tuxie I didn't see that globaltv promo. I guess that's how Kate sees it. She's had awhile to think about it. I get the idea that someone thinks of Red as a "mad dog" too, these days, that is out of control. We also had that description of Berlin by Fitch who said he'd "chewed through his leash."

I wasn't sure if that was a travel trailer like an Airstream or if it was a horse trailer. The cop reminded me of the RCMP in the other scene. But could be anywhere or any time.

That would be interesting if it was Dom. If not him, then I am thinking someone from that "pack" he was escaping from. Lots of dog references.

Honey West - You are right about all the dog references! Let's not forget Carla/Naomi's' "I had a house, and a dog, and life!"

Last edited by Tuxie400 (4/20/2017 11:28 am)

IowaWatcher · 4/20/2017 11:44 am

I just love all of your speculations! Any of them could be true. Just a few more hours!

Tatiana · 4/20/2017 11:46 am

Ok, I cannot keep up with all the spoilers that are being released! There is one with Aram and Dembe and then I just saw another one with Glen. I didn't watch it! I want tonight to have some surprises!!!

lara1 · 4/20/2017 2:45 pm

that mad dog reference takes me right back to the Major and how right before he goes to kill Tom he told Tom that story about how his uncle had to put down a dog that had got in the hen house or something like that. and the uncle loved that dog but it had gone bad and so had to be put down (shot)

At the time I noted to you all how the Major was riding in a Cadillac when he picked up Tom (Initially when he was 14). And how his story telling was much like Reds. And Red said his father had a cadillac.

Not that the Major was Red's father, but I wondered if Red spent time with The Major when he was young (the age difference I think was wide enough) and that's how Red picked up his stories and maybe he even incorporated the Major's Cadillac into one of his own stories....and maybe Red even looked upon the Major as a father figure at one time.

But my point is, is something about that going to come full circle now....that mad dog reference is interesting.....

Last edited by lara1 (4/20/2017 2:46 pm)

Honey West · 4/20/2017 3:10 pm

Tatiana wrote:
Bokenkamp keeps reminding us that Red is a murderer. In other words, James Spader does a splendid job of seducing us to love him by his enchanting presence, but he's a criminal . He kills people. He shot his most trusted friend, Kate.

I think Red needs some more family therapy. He doesn't seem to understand the give and take of relationships.

LOL! On the family therapy! That goes for just about everyone on the show! Red is definitely unhinged, JB even said so. I've thought that all along. He's very intelligent, but really, he's insane. That campfire scene really made me think so. He's very good at hiding it most of the time. I've also said all along, many, many times, that Red is a cold-blooded killer. That's why people like DeVry went to him to be "euthanized" because they knew he would do,it. No questions asked, no remorse over taking their life. So, yes, the writers and Spader have done a masterful job in making us actually like him and root for him. But he is not a good person, he really is a bad person doing good things, as they have said he might be. So unless they write a story that shows him to be otherwise, then that is what he is. A serial killer with lots of money and resources at his disposal. Well, maybe finally someone has had enough of him. He's more of a liability than a help. But it still makes me wonder, if it turns out that he was more or less "created", through heredity or environment, to be this super mastermind/assassin or whatever, then I think he was also emotionally flawed or whatever and that may be why he became what he is now and didn't rise to the top as a non-criminal leader.

Or something like that.

Tatiana · 4/20/2017 4:24 pm

Ok, now for one final promo/spoiler introduced by Jon Bokenkamp. I think this is the better of all the spoilers I've seen so far as it's easier to understand what it happening (plus it doesn't give everything away!!!)

Enjoy and see you at the theatre!
https://www.facebook.com/NBCBlacklist/videos/1170750486386140/

Tatiana · 4/20/2017 4:43 pm

Honey West wrote:
Tatiana wrote:
Bokenkamp keeps reminding us that Red is a murderer. In other words, James Spader does a splendid job of seducing us to love him by his enchanting presence, but he's a criminal . He kills people. He shot his most trusted friend, Kate.

I think Red needs some more family therapy. He doesn't seem to understand the give and take of relationships.

LOL! On the family therapy! That goes for just about everyone on the show! Red is definitely unhinged, JB even said so. I've thought that all along. He's very intelligent, but really, he's insane. That campfire scene really made me think so. He's very good at hiding it most of the time. I've also said all along, many, many times, that Red is a cold-blooded killer. That's why people like DeVry went to him to be "euthanized" because they knew he would do,it. No questions asked, no remorse over taking their life. So, yes, the writers and Spader have done a masterful job in making us actually like him and root for him. But he is not a good person, he really is a bad person doing good things, as they have said he might be. So unless they write a story that shows him to be otherwise, then that is what he is. A serial killer with lots of money and resources at his disposal. Well, maybe finally someone has had enough of him. He's more of a liability than a help. But it still makes me wonder, if it turns out that he was more or less "created", through heredity or environment, to be this super mastermind/assassin or whatever, then I think he was also emotionally flawed or whatever and that may be why he became what he is now and didn't rise to the top as a non-criminal leader.

Or something like that.

I think we're coming to the reluctant realization that Reddington is a monster, a snake in the grass. JB has said Red is not ...what's the word he used? ... a psychopath? There is a cold rationale to what he does. He doesn't glory in the killing itself, but recognizes its necessity in his quest/life. Remember when he shot the grocery parking lot attacker, he said each time I do this I lose a little more of myself (hideous fish).
So he really is the farmer of the story he tells the Stewmaker.

"A farmer comes home one day to find that everything that gives meaning to his life is gone. Crops are burned, animals slaughtered, bodies and broken pieces of his life strewn about. Everything that he loved taken from him - his children. One can only imagine the pit of despair, the hours of Job-like lamentations, the burden of existence. He makes a promise to himself in those dark hours. A life's work erupts from his knotted mind. Years go by. His suffering becomes complicated. One day he stops - the farmer who is no longer a farmer - sees the wreckage he's left in his wake. It is now he who burns, he who slaughters, and he knows in his heart he must pay."

lara1 · 4/20/2017 5:32 pm

Well I think it's very interesting that JB introduces the latest spoiler and has been very actively engaged. We are being bombarded with spoilers - articles, interviews, sneak peeks, maybe more than ever before

I think tptb want us to pay attention and I think they are signaling a major turn in the direction of the show. They are shouting from the rooftops as it were!

I'm in! Remember it's 9pm !!! I nearly forgot that with all of the spoiler excitement! Lol