Tatiana wrote:

Lara - by its very nature, the scar her father left on her arm is a pretty darn weird thing for a loving father to do to his daughter. And pray tell, why would touching it make her feel unafraid? You'd have to have a red-hot searing poker. Any parent who does such a thing would be in jail for the rest of their lives. The fact that it evokes calm in her means she was psychologically conditioned to have that response.

Tatiana - you know I was just thinking about that the other day, and how everything in the pilot is meant to be important.  And while Liz tells Beth that her father gave her the scar to be brave, Liz tells Red simply that there was a fire.  And Red says, someone tried to hurt you.  And Liz says, no, not exactly.  Which made me think it happened in the fire, but it was accidental and Sam told her it was a special mark of bravery, to make her feel better about it.
But which is the real version?  maybe a bit of both....

Red says to Liz, "I notice how you stroke it" or something like that.  Which makes me agree with you that somehow Liz was conditioned to feel calm when she touches the scar.

Just a gut reaction, but when I watched the pilot for the  very first time way back when, I got the idea that someone had purposely put that mark on Liz, so that she could always be positively identified for some reason.  And Red wanted to see it to assure himself that she was the "real" "Liz".  And since then, with so many "daughters" and "near" and "maybe" daughters floating around, I do wonder whether that is close to the truth......and why.

just food for thought....


 

Lara1 #101 that's a great point about Liz's scar being a sign of bravery. I can imagine Sam telling her that as a little child, especially if school classmates asked her about it.

I'm glad you brought up the dialogue between Red and Liz about the scar. Someone on the pilot's commentary said how creepy Red was during that scene, the way he spoke about and looked at her scar.

What has me stumped is Tom's and Gina's boxes with her scar on the lids. The boxes must have come from the Major (given that Gina has a box and didn't work for Red or Berlin). So the Major's spy school was likely part of something bigger. As far as we know Liz is the only person with that scar. Since she is the chosen one, does that mean that Liz is the key or is vital to something so huge that her scar is the "logo" for it? Bad pun alert - Liz's scar is like the "brand" name...

Colleen #104 - LOL!!!!   And probably true!!  haha    (cheshire cat-like emoji!!)

lara1 wrote:

Honey West #88 - Yes, its not possible that Red is the Zodiac Killer.  But it just keeps sticking in my head, why two different pieces of info on the Zodiac killer would be in his file.  And why a blood sample report of someone who was not confirmed as a victim?  Its so bizarre i can think of no reason for it other than maybe Red's father was a detective on the case.  But why would that be relevant.  and anything else would be strange - but this is TBL!

I remember seeing that back then and wondered if they were of some relation somehow?  He was too young to have known anything going on at that time.
 

All good thoughts everyone! This going back to work full time thing really takes up too much of my valuable time! LOL! I need to go back and look at the List and see how they might be a part of erasing the past. I haven't had a chance to do that yet. Especially the deceased blacklisters. The surviving ones might play a role in repairing or fixing something that can still be fixed. I haven't tested this idea yet, but if anyone else wants to have a go at it please do!

I had also been think about Liz's scar lately. Funny how we all seem to get to the same places around the same time. GMTA! And just scars in general. How many people on the show have a significant scar of some sort? Three main ones for sure: Red, Liz and Dembe. I'm sure Kate probably has a pretty good one now, too. And quite a few of the blacklisters had pretty good scars, too. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, beyond the fact that they all work in dangerous circumstances.

But, yeah, your thoughts about Liz, her scar, the fire are all pretty much what I've thought all along, too. And all the rest. Redemption is about to come on so I will get to the TV in a few minutes. 

Yes, Colleen, I also thought Red was pretty creepy when he first met Liz in the Pilot. He made you feel very uncomfortable with his familiarity and comments. And body language, or lack of it.

I would love to know what Red's father did for a living. But most of all I'd love to know what Red is doing with that Presidential limo. That REALLY drives me crazy!

Well, regardless of whether or not Red is Liz's father, what's important is that Kirk seems to know something about Red (or whoever he really is) and a daughter that he hurt enough to bring it up all these years later. And we know it wasn't Liz/Masha. Or maybe it wasn't Masha, but was Liz? These things can really make your head hurt!

Colleen - I think I was the one who brought up the Case Study homes. Most of them are located in southern California, but they do spread about. I think it would be a thin link though but a possibility. Riverside is east of LA.

My primary purpose in bringing up the mention of the Case Study Houses is because at least I had always assumed Katarina was in Russia or sometimes in the US but soley on the East Coast. When Kirk mentioned Case Study Houses, that would only be southern California (one home is in Phoenix). 

This expands Katarina's scope of influence. However, we do know there is no direct correlation between those particular murders (the serial killers in California in the 60's and 70's Honey West references) and Red or Katarina. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Study_Houses

[url]https://www.google.com/maps/place/Riverside+City+College/@33.9711776,-117.3815015,15z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xeb075ea60f0a77f6!8m2!3d33.9711776!4d-117.3815015[/url]




 

Last edited by Tatiana (3/17/2017 11:59 am)

Tatiana wrote:

This has nothing to do with Chess per se, but I think it does indicate we are on the right path.
I believe Bokenkamp has said everything you need to know is contained in the pilot and the first few episodes. I don't think he meant the answers were there; he meant all the clues were there.

I've mentioned this before, but we all know this show is set up as a giant puzzle, we must look at the clues, and in the meantime, the biggest one of all is that this is a show of characters, pawns, being moved about in a strategic way: a giant Chess game.

So as an avid Puzzler and long-time subscriber to all things words and nerds, I note the obvious close up of the crossword puzzle Red works on in the Pilot, see photo below. It is created by none other than Will Shortz, the all-time greatest genius puzzle creator. He's the Sunday New York Times puzzle creator and formerly the Chief Editor at GAMES magazine. In fact, I remember doing this particular crossword puzzle.

Regardless, it's the biggest clue of all, in my opinion, and it tells us we are on the right path.

I finally found the original puzzle. It was written in April 2013, a few months before the Pilot. Here is a link to the puzzle and the answers.
http://donaldsweblog.blogspot.com/2013/04/quotes.html


 

Colleen - ha, thanks! I just realized I didn't include any kind of explanation! 

So if you look at the picture from The Pilot, the pen is covering up 51 Down: Ecole

Often puzzles have a theme which the long clues follow, in this case, Memorable Movie Lines.

17 Across:  "Here's Johnny" Jack Nicholson, The Shining, a horror movie about a man going mad and murdering his family;
22 Across:  "I see dead people" Haley Osment, child actor, The Sixth Sense, a horror movie, child psychologist tries to help child with hallucinations, turns out doctor is dead, he has unfinished business among the living;
37 Across: "You had me at hello" ....
40 Across: "Stella, hey, Stella".... 
46 Across: "I want to be alone"....
58 Across: "ET go home"....

So the puzzle was done separately from TBL but it's interesting that these films are horror films, love stories, sex and seduction; death; home; psychologically disturbing subjects; etc.

I still think it's interesting that Ecole is covered with the pen because of course, we have the mystery of Elise Le Blanc - isn't is ecole de ballet? or is it school of ballet
 

Tatiana #112.  Interesting thoughts, good idea to open up a discussion thread.  I have wondered from time to time if what Red did to "hurt" his daughter inadvertently resulted in some sort of scarring or something like that.  I think it was telling, the scene where Skylar's mother asked Red if he had a special needs child.  I'm not saying its a good thing, just that its a possibility.  We don't even know who specifically Kirk was talking about....

Last edited by lara1 (3/17/2017 7:34 pm)

Tatiana, I had a closer look at the puzzle and the top part of the pen is covering the space for the word "Fatal" and the bottom part with the blood, as you point out, is covering "ecole"....hmmmm

Edited to Add:  as obssessed as I am with numbers, I note that "Fatal" at the top of the pen is # 12 down (there's that number again!).     Ecole is #51.  No real magic in that though in numerology 51 reduces to 6, divisible by 3.  though I'm sure that is just coincidental.  The more interesting thing is the word, "ecole", IMO of course.....

Last edited by lara1 (3/17/2017 7:45 pm)