If you look up Romanov dynastic descendants you will see that there are still plenty of Romanovs around today. In fact a case could be made for Red being a descendant of some sort. There were also a lot of Romanovs named Constantin or Konstantin, plus all of the Alexanders who descend from Alexander II.
And, for all we know, whatever Red whispered to Kirk may not have had anything to do with Katarina, but maybe something to,do with old Russian Imperial aristocracy. We still don't know exactly why Kirk was never on the List, and we also don't fully grasp why Red seemed to not want to kill him once he learned that Liz was still alive. In fact, Red changed his tune and wanted to save his life. Well, I guess his wanting to kill Kirk was mainly about vengeance for Liz, pure and simple, but why do such a major turn around to go through all the trouble of finding Dr. Shaw and her miracle cure for what ailed him?

When I was a teenager I read Nicolas and Alexandria. Loved it. We toyed with the idea of czarist Russia before but didn't come up with anything. Not saying we wouldn't with a different perspective though. 

Loving these new emojis, Honey West! 

Tuxie400 wrote:

lara1 - The flat may have belonged to Red's mother. I just read about someone I believe was an inspiration to the writers whose mother was called Duchess. He's the one who was descended from Russians that worked in the court of Tsar Alexander and was a cousin to the Romanovs.

Tuxie400 - I really like this idea.  I know some of us felt that the flat may have belonged to an older person.  I thought at one point, Katarina's mother.  But I like the idea of Red's mother.  And I love the "Duchess" connection to the cat in Alice in Wonderland and Alice (Liz) having seen it for the first time in the kitchen of the "Duchess"., as with "flat cat" also -  very interesting!!
 

Last edited by lara1 (3/14/2017 5:57 pm)

Hi all, I'm going to copy all of my Tsar thoughts from this thread back into the St. Nick thread.

Tatiana #55; and Tuxie400  - I think that the true story/reveal of the series may make everyone uncomfortable and that is why they can't reveal it until the very end of the series.  That's a thought I've had for a while.

Also why I just go with the twists and turns of the story, as it is taking us somewhere.  And we really can't know until the end what the end is.  

Tatiana, thank you for sharing all of the screenshots.  It really pulls things together and its great to see them.  For example apart from the flags, I just noticed in the cruise line photos that all of the lifeboats on the cruise ship model are red.  I don't know whether that is usual or not for a model of a cruise ship, but in any event I'd never noticed it before, despite watching the episode a few times.  Same with the other photos - so much to discover!

Last edited by lara1 (3/14/2017 8:38 pm)

Tatiana wrote:

When I was a teenager I read Nicolas and Alexandria. Loved it. We toyed with the idea of czarist Russia before but didn't come up with anything. Not saying we wouldn't with a different perspective though. 

Loving these new emojis, Honey West! 

I read the book about that same time, too, Tatiana. Then the movie came out. Such a sad story! So many wrong turns and bad decisions. Sound familiar? When I visited St Petersburg in 2014, I made sure to visit Tsarskoe Selo, to see the Catherine Palace and the famous Amber Room. The palace is full of those life-size oil portraits of Nicholas and Alexandra. And on the cruise we had a Russian history specialist who was most interesting! He had lived in St Petersburg for 24 years and so he gave us a very personalized view of the place. We also had a former US spy master on board who had been with the CIA during the Cold War. Name escapes me at the moment, but I can tell you he was most fascinating with his insights on US/USSR relations. We also had him on the Caribbean cruise and he gave some very cool lectures on Ian Fleming and James Bond.

Glad you like the emojis! I guess we've had them all along. There are three or four different sets of them to choose from. I thought this set was appropriate for the recent discussions. Tabasko made me an administrator a couple of weeks ago and I am only now discovering some of these options. I can change them back when we get tired of them. Or maybe they will add new ones?

Tuxie400 wrote:

Tatiana wrote:

Tuxie - In watching some episodes again, it is clear there are certain themes or 'symbols' which show up time and again: clocks; chess/checkered patterns/chess pieces/chess plays; St. Nicholas/Nick/Christmas; Russia; royalty; prima ballerina/ballet/dance.

Ordinarily I am very skeptical of this, but almost all episodes are set in gray, black, white, forms, etc. more or less monochromatic with very little color unless it is natural. Think of the all white apartment which Red uses to draw out his new cleaners. Or think of the Post Office with its battleship grey. When a color or prop appears that is outside of that basic background, it is meant to provide some meaning.

Getting back to your point, though Lara, we had often wondered if Liz was important because she was the descendant of Nicholas and Alexandria but we'd dropped the idea for several reasons. I don't think anyone in blogsphere/discussion boards had brought up that it was Red who was perhaps a descendant of Czar Nicholas. Very interesting.

I would think then if he were part of Imperial Russia, then he would be counter to Katarina? Lots of interesting implications.

Katarina and Red may both have lineage going to Tsar Nicholas, or maybe not. I'm sorry I called the Tsar Alexander in one of my posts. I did mean Nicholas. I really wish I didn't know what I know, and I just don't want to say it publicly at this time. It really put me in the pit of despair. If the show points in this direction.when it returns, I may spill what I found.

Here's what I will tell you. I discovered an author and a book that have a lot of thematic similarities and symbolism in The Blacklist. When you look at this author's bio it looks like he was living in Red's flat. He was also a master chess player, by the way. When I looked at other movies, novels, and real life cases similar to this author's book, I found character names, objects, and dialog that have appeared in the Blacklist.

I don't want to be right about the connections I've made. 
 

Well, Tuxie400, maybe we can put it in a special area of the site and have warnings that only people who REALLY want to know should go in there. I'll see if there's anything I can do using the admin tools. Meanwhile, it could be that things were borrowed from that source, but will end up being used in a different way? Anyway, maybe we can create a sort of a safe for you to put it in. I'll let you know what I find.

Don't worry about Nicholas and Alexander. His father was Alexander III and his grandfather was Alexander II. A well-used Romanoff name. Alexander II was very important because he was the Tsar who freed the serfs. He was also nice to Finland, they have a giant statue of him in a main square in Helsinki. Sadly he was assassinated by an anarchist, who tossed a bomb at his carriage on the streets of St Petersburg. They built a huge church on the site, the Church of the Savior on the Spilled Blood. Russian history is very dark!

Colleen wrote:

Hi Everyone - dealing with two feet of snow but oddly am having fun with it - feels like I'm a little kid again. Except that being an adult allows me to spike my hot chocolate with Bailey's. My poor dog is very confused, but being a good sport and unintentionally comical. Hope everyone is safe during this winter weather and finding ways to make it fun.

After reading about the controversy with Lewis Carroll/Alice in Wonderland and Tuxie400, Laura1, and others' worries about how TBL could end, I just wanted to offer a "bright spot." When going through a dark time, my Mom always said to look for the bright spots - things that make you smile a little or offer some hope - to remind you that it's all worthwhile in the end. So here's the bright spot that I hope provides some solace (stealing from Marvin Gerard).

Whatever potential controversial ending occurs in TBL, I'm sure that we can handle it. We have such a kindhearted, intelligent, creative, inquisitive, mature, friendly, open-arms group here (and did at Blacklist Support Group as well), that we can discuss and process it together. Who knows, it could end up being a whole new level of discussions that only begins when the show actually ends. That rarely happens with a TV show. A few months after a show ends, so often do the fansite groups, but with TBL maybe that won't be the case at all. Maybe the show's big reveal is an opportunity for people to discuss topics that need to be discussed. And put a spotlight on issues that have been ignored or minimized. But whatever happens, we can get through it together.

Hope this helps and doesn't make folks worry. My dog's reaction to the snow has me a little sleep deprived, so my judgement may be off, but my heart's in the right place.

 
Great post, Colleen! And good reminders as to who we are and why we are here,  . One thing we forget is that this is a story that does eventually have an ending. Getting there is at the mercy of the network, the ratings, the length of time they have to use or to fill until it gets there.  They've given us a nice puzzle to play with in the meantime.
So is Red a chess master or is he an imposter? Probably both, and neither. Never forget what he told us (and Liz) from the beginning. "I'm a liar." And "Everything about me is a lie." So was he lying when he said he was a liar?     

Tuxie - I had noticed the other day the discovery you made online about speculations surrounding Lewis Carroll. This kind of thing can really be devastating to read. If there is any consolation, no proof has ever been discovered. Further, the child Alice, as an adult, had very favorable things to say of him. If it helps at all, I can share with you what I've found on the web. Please feel free to send me a private message if you wish. 

As a broader message to all of us, there are all sorts of things we can discover on the internet: some are wonderful, we can learn about the world, other cultures, discoveries, art, etc. But we can also see the dark side of things. 

One of the things that the moderators from our parent discussion board emphasized was staying positive in our comments about TBL. That doesn't mean being pollyanna, but it was meant to prevent that dark, critical, somehow 'black' hole we as humans can sometimes go down. The moderators were focusing on keeping the discussion level and enjoyable. If you go to other websites, there are people who are really critical of the producers, the actors, the direction of the show etc. What's the fun in that?

My point is to try to keep this what it's meant to be: entertainment. This show is unusual because the characters are so complex. Look at Raymond Reddington: a monster, a snake, and yet so altruistic. This is very difficult for the human mind to comprehend.  As we were looking at the chess boards, one of the things I discovered that the Masons always covered their floors in black and white checkered pattern, to symbolize that we must live our lives between good and evil and that our lives are touched by both. 

I don't know why I'm getting so philosophical, but I just want to encourage us to keep this dialogue going. We've always enjoyed dynamic, friendly, fun, and profound exchanges. I truly think that when we find out what the big "reveal' is, we'll all want to hang around to chat up the whole thing through the lens of that information. What clues did we get? Where were we wrong? Where were we right? Where were we pretty darn close? 

Oh, I think this is gonna be a gas!'

Thanks everyone for your positive messages. I do appreciate my wonderful support group. What I've found - the origin for the "box" in the Post Office, the Santa Claus references, the Stewmaker, the ballerina, the checks and the plaids, and the shipping container - were not positive at all. This is my last message here for awhile. Naomi Highland was right - Raymond Reddington is not who you think he is.

Tuxie400 - take care of yourself - will be thinking of you.   We are here for you - should you want to drop in to chat  - or just say hello.