Tatiana - thanks for starting this thread.  There are lots of parallels.  Including, as some of us have mentioned, the last scene with Dembe mirroring the last scene in Anslo Garrick where Red pulls up a hood over him and disappears into the NY night.

So here are 2 thoughts - what does everyone think?

1.  In that now famous scene at the end of Anslo Garrick, Red calls Liz and that's when she first asks if he is her father, and he has that major hesitation and then answers no.  Honey West stated in another thread that perhaps the current scenario will make Red think that he has to tell Liz something.  So that would be a parallel, whether or not he is her father and whether or not he tells her that, or something else.

2.  Anslo Garrick tortured Red (hopefully Kaplan does not!!) but we found out at the end of the day, it wasn't Anslo at all, that is, he was hired by the Cabal to infiltrate the Post Office based on information they gave to him.  In other words, Anslo did not track down Red, the Cabal, using Diane Fowler, got the plans to the facility to Anslo and he did the rest.  They found someone with a grudge against Red and used him.  

Many of us have speculated that someone is pulling the strings here, the next big bad (or even an old big bad like the Cabal).  So they are either forcing the hand of Kaplan and/or Dembe or one or both of them are not involved but are being set up and so it looks that way (Dembe set up maybe makes him think Kaplan is alive and maybe behind it, and maybe he will find out she is not).  In that Anslo Garrick story arc, we were also given other false leads (Aram and Meera)

In any event, I think the larger parallel is pointing to a surprise big bad (which could be Jennifer or someone else).  Remember how surprising it was when Alan Alda as Fitch walked in to talk to Red after Anslo had detained him and sort of hung him from the ceiling (LOL).  I was like, whoa, what is going on here?  hopefully we will be similarly surprised at who is behind the current events, and another large piece of the puzzle will thereby fall into place.

just some thoughts....

Last edited by lara1 (3/01/2017 11:25 am)

Yes, Tatiana, I literally had that thought over on the other thread as you were writing this!

More a mirror image, like the players are somehow reversed in the same kind of story arc.  

OK, so I re-read the scripts for Anslo Garrick part 1 and 2, and found some more story parallels/mirrors to what I posted above.  Some supports our theories!

Red is on the run, Liz says that Dembe has been calling looking for him; Red says Dembe will have to wait, Red needs to be gone for a while.  Here we have the opposite with Red trying to reach Dembe, who is not reachable and has gone on the run.

The entire apple man surveillance team was unmasked in Anslo Garrick conclusion - spying not only on Tom and Liz, but, per Cooper, on the entire task force.  So is this happening again in the current scenario?  We never found out who apple man was, did we?  I think the team and the whole gang are under surveillance again.  but by whom?(and bringing in "numbers" again  - the whole set up in A. Garrick was in a house on 12th Street - there is that number/december/midnight time reference again.)

Kaplan appears on the scene for the first time.  When Red and Liz conspire their act with the defibrillator in the ambulance (as Anslo is taking them from the Post Office and trying to dig out the chip from Red's shoulder), Red tells her to call the Emissary Hotel in Chicago - Mr. Kaplan.   (Nice parallel too, to the ambulance scene with Liz/Red in Solomon Conclusion)

The use of bird imagery is interesting here.  I overlooked the most obvious:  Diane "Fowl"er.  the person behind the entire operation.  I think this is tying in again with The Thrushes.....does anyone remember Elise's last name...?  

Here are some others: Red to Cooper:  think we have a songbird in our midst, and until I find out who's singing, I don't trust anyone because someone helped to bring him here.

The code that Harold uses when he realizes they are about to be breached:  Carry code Oriole Baton 338.

The code that Aram uses to contact FBI on emergency basis:  Hatchling

Then Kaplan arrives on the scene.  The codeword is, What color is the sky?  Red.  Liz meets her for the first time, as she cleans up after Liz killed apple man (or his colleague, can't remember which).  

So Kaplan arrives  and says:"I have two directives... To protect you and find my employer. I intend to do both. " So I hope this bolsters the idea that Kaplan will arrive at some point to help save the day....

So I'm thinking again that this supports a lot of what a bunch of us have been saying:  it is a bigger bad, Elise is somehow involved, surveilling Red and the team, gaining information on Red and his operations, not Kaplan.  And Kaplan may or may not be involved but if she is, she is being used - either its against her will or she's given one piece of info to try to do something just to prove a point to Red, but she has unwittingly played into the hands of the big bad.  (I think she's too smart to do that, though)

Its really intresting once you start thinking through all of the similiarities....

Last edited by lara1 (3/01/2017 3:37 pm)

Good detective work, Agent Lara! I'm pretty sure Elise's last name was a bird name too. Remember when Liz looks at the book of photos and sees her? I think her complete name in the photo was completely different though.

My husband is brilliant. I just asked him. It was Agent Navabi who met with another lead who provided her with photos of people who were supposedly killed in a chemical bombing. Except Elise survived.

Her last name was Lord. We don't remember her first name.

Only other Lord we have is Lord Baltimore.... 

Tatiana #11 - yes, brilliant, I remember now!  And there is a clue to that when Red speaks on a pay phone with Kirk in a prior episode, and there is an ad on the wall of the building behind him about a comedy match up , it was "Lord" vs. someone else, I can't remember, it may have been Marx.  something that made me sit up and say oh a "royal" reference.  

AND Lord Baltimore - good connection, Tatiana - takes us right back to Berlin and Jennifer!!!  This is getting even more exciting!!

yes, all of the Russian bird references and the red/white references always remind me of the Russian royal family and the red and white armies at the time of the Russian revolution.  That's what I thought of again when I saw the "Lord vs Marx" matchup on the wall behind Red when he is talking to Kirk.  We continue to have royal references....I remember Red referred to Isabella Stone as the "ice queen" when he released her back to Harold.  Wasn't the firebird also tied to Russian royalty in some way?  I could be wrong about that, need to look it up.....

Last edited by lara1 (3/01/2017 3:50 pm)

Elise's last name - revealed in the Lipet Seafood Co., was related to fish not birds. It was Elise Nickerson. That's a nod to Thomas Nickerson, a sailor and writer who was on the Essex ship that the Moby Dick story is based on. There was a 2015 movie that dramatized his manuscript about the whale attack called In the Heart of the Sea. This ties -n to the Season One pilot where Red calls himself Ahab and explains his list to Harold:

"I’m Ahab. And if you want the whales on my list, you have to play by my rules."  

I  think the name under the photo Samar found of Elise identified her as Kate Lord.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/04/2017 9:36 pm)

Tuxie400 wrote:

Elise's last name - revealed in the Lipet Seafood Co., was related to fish not birds. It was Elise Nickerson. That's a nod to Thomas Nickerson, a sailor and writer who was on the Essex ship that the Moby Dick story is based on. There was a 2015 movie that dramatized his manuscript about the whale attack called In the Heart of the Sea. The tie-in to the Season One where Red calls himself Ahab and explains the his list to Harold:

"I’m Ahab. And if you want the whales on my list, you have to play by my rules."  

I  think the name under the photo Samar found of Elise identified her as Patricia Lord.

Tuxie400 - great connection back to Season 1 and in fact the pilot!  Soooo ----  is that telling us that there is a link between Elise and Red??  There was the Elise/Elise le Blanc link (whatever that turns out to be), this one sounds more direct.  Like your theory on Jennifer!!