Tuxie400 - very interesting collection of clues.  You know her alias was "Kate"!!!! Lord.  I don't know whether that and the poster name was just a clue that she was working for Kirk, or something more - i.e., was she just hired by Kirk, or did she really want to work for Kirk to try to take down Red.  Or, at least keep him away from Agnes and cause casualties in the process (was that before or after, the car bomb Kirk set up?)

Another clue for you - wasn't Elise wearing leg warmers or shown untying shoe laces in a close up camera shot when we first see her show up in Aram's apartment?

I think a connection to ballerina girl is very possible.  I always thought ballerina girl would be older, though it depends on how old one thinks ballerina girl is.  I take her for around 10, meaning ballerina girl (fi she is still alive) would be around 40.  But sometimes I wonder whether the age of the girl was just casting.  Like, it was difficult to find a younger girl who would look the part and could dance Swan Lake.  So even though the actress may look around 10 (I think I remember reading she was 11, but I may be mis-remembering), she might be representing a younger girl.  

then there is her eye color but as I think Tatiana pointed out, Elise/Janet could be wearing brown contacts.  Did Red know the current Thrushes?  I think he would recognize Jennifer but probably not ballerina girl from all those years ago (if they are different).  Questions, questions!  Even if Elise is not ballerina girl, she might be connected in some way.  

I still think Elise/Janet whether Jennifer or not, or ballet girl or not, is behind, or part of the plot against Red.    I think she is very possibly Jennifer, and I think she would have motive.  I think there were two girls in the house on fire night, and that Jennifer was very possibly the other girl.  I'm fairly certain Carla was there too.
So if fire house was Carlas/Jennifer's house, Jennifer might have a lot to blame Red for, rightly or wrongly.
 

Tuxie400 - here is another indirect link to the Mako Tanida episode.  I commented on it before, but not in this context, in the context of season 1/ season 4.

At the end of Natalie Luca when Red goes to speak to Natalie, his words are reminiscent of those he writes to Donald about Audrey in Mako Tanida, as the ballet sequence is playing.  Also, in Natalie Luca, during that same conversation, Red mentions a Japanese term for deep grief.  It reminded me of Mako Tanida and the various Japanese phrases and explanations in that episode, not to mention the main story and principal characters concerned Japan.

Then, I remembered this bit of dialogue in The Thrushes.  I commented on it at the time, but in the context of fire symbolism.  

When Aram is "undercover" with Elise at dinner in his apartment, and Elise starts to think he is acting strangely, at one point in the bedroom when Aram pushes her away, she says

Elise: Are you gonna tell me what's going on?
Aram: I don't want to cause a fire is all.

So Aram is worried about the pasta sauce burning.  So, if Elise is Jennifer and she was at fire house, that could be a kind of link.....
 

Last edited by lara1 (3/04/2017 1:35 am)

I have been leaning on the Cabal as my first choice all week. Now After seeing the whitehall connection I feel its a combo of Laurel Hitchen working with SH. I am wondering if Tom stumbles on to anything and warns Red if this is the case.

They have their own hacker, but I guess 2 couldn't hurt.
I do feel like there is a reason they brought Elise back.
I had another thought but I lost it! Lol.

Last edited by Eastcoast (3/04/2017 2:09 am)

lara1  #27- What an epiphany! I do see what you mean about how each is dressed, and I think you are right about Emma representing ballerina girl and Elise representing bubble girl. All those bubbles in Aram's kitchen!!! Didn't Elise have lace-up shoes the first time we saw her when she started undressing in Aram's apartment? She was dressed like she just came from the gym. So do you think this is just foreshadowing that we're going to get a reveal about them? By the way, Annie Heise really does have dark brown eyes.

As far as we know, Red has never seen Elise. They've never been in a scene together. The Thrushes were an entire group of people, and we never saw who else was in the group. And we never got information that others in the group had been arrested.

Why do you think there have been so many dancing references in Season 4? There have been a boat load, and in many cases they seemed out of place or unnecessary. Could the dancing references be there as a clue toward Katarina rather than Jennifer? In my mind, I always had Raymond meeting Katarina through ballet. Maybe she was his daughter's ballet teacher. LOL

 

Last edited by Tuxie400 (3/04/2017 11:32 am)

One more idea - there are so many fans saying Kate Kaplan is behind the attack of Red. They could be right about it being a Kate (Kate Lord), just not the right Kate. Also on the Kate Lord train of thought, she was thought to be dead, but isn't.  Was Bubble Girl thought to be dead, but isn't?

Eastcoast - Now that we have Scottie connected to Whitehall, and Hitchins name has been raised again, they very possibly could be in cahoots on the attack on Red. Maybe Scottie recommended The Thrushes to Kirk.

Kate Lord?

Oh my goodness, does it get any better than this? 

lara1 - Please put your connections with Natalie Luca and Mako Tanida episode on our Season 4 and Season 1 parallels thread! I really like that one!

Tatiana - This is the poster that Honey West and lara1 started talking about that appeared in Miles McGrath when Red gets a call from Kirk on a pay phone. The poster can be seen as Red and Dembe come to a stop next to a pay phone. And it can also be see over Red's shoulder as he talks to Kirk on the phone. The screencap above is the only one I could find. But it was briefly shown in back of Red in the episode. So Elise's previous alias matched the name on the prop poster.

I have always thought that bubble and ballerina girls were much more than Red's wistful memories of better times. Interesting ideas, lara1. They make sense, too. I'd always leaned towards bubble girl being Liz, though. So I haven't figured how she fits in, because I'm sure she does. And I always thought ballet girl was probably Jennifer. Hey, Red could easily have been 17 or 18 when she was born. And going back to Diane Fowler and her what really happened to your family taunt, I have always thought it possible that it might not have been his wife or children, they might have survived, but the tragedy could have happened to his parents or siblings. We only know for sure based on what he told Aram that his mother is dead, but what about the rest of his family?