The Blacklist Refugees » Fire night

lara1 · 10/08/2017 11:02 am

hi deadskie13! so nice to hear from you:
"or, all the puzzle pieces overlap, and it'll be something so simple and so obvious, that we all go OH! "

LOL. I think that may actually be the case Something so simple and obvious but we can't see it - like a magic trick. What we are seeing has a simple explanation, behind a facade. haha

I wondered that about Takoma Park House, but then I remembered - when we saw it in the original episode - it seemed like a bona fide Victorian house to me. As in, it was old and hadn't really been updated in the sense of replacing original features. The kitchen looked like it had a basic update but that was it. to me, anyway!

Last edited by lara1 (10/08/2017 11:03 am)

Eastcoast · 10/15/2017 12:09 am

Brittany, here is a pic of the girl in the closet.

I realized that the other one was deleted.

https://ibb.co/mF447v

lara1 · 10/15/2017 12:42 am

Thanks for posting east coast. Although - that’s not the image I’m referring to specifically. What I’m referring to is a very faint image of another child to the right of little Liz, it appears for literally seconds only as the very last scene in that fire memory. It then abruptly cuts to a completely different current scene, may have been Ressler, can’t recall exactly. I wish I knew how to capture that image and post it.

It’s so quick, kind of like the blond hair/ brown hair little Liz as dr orchard starts to count down ( there’s that 3-2-1again!) and little Liz opens her eyes.

Last edited by lara1 (10/15/2017 12:44 am)

10/15/2017 7:23 am

I had assumed that picture you posted was Liz. I was going through the clips of the fire to see if I could find that exact shot to look at it again and I had the closed captioning on and during part of it the man in the argument (assuming it's Red) says "You told her?" and the woman (assuming it's KR) says, "Yes, I told her". Who is "her"? Did KR go to Carla looking for Red and tell her about the affair and Liz? Granted, we've been told the memories are unreliable, but I wonder if Red would have thought to modify the conversation she heard. He seemed to want to hide the details of what she saw more.

Eastcoast wrote:
Brittany, here is a pic of the girl in the closet. I realized that the other one was deleted.
https://ibb.co/mF447v

lara1 · 10/15/2017 11:54 am

Brittany - next time you happen to watch the fire sequence, see if you can see the very faint image of a child to the right of little Liz. The image that east coast posted appears to the left of little Liz, so the order is, left to right, the east coast image (possibly adult Liz), little Liz in the center, then the faded image to the right of little Liz, then cut to a different scene. When I first saw it, I literally had to freeze frame it second by second to see it (sort of) clearly. Would be interested in your thoughts.

Eastcoast · 10/19/2017 9:12 pm

Here are a few pics of that night of the fire.
The woman in the hallway she was fighting with.
And the one that lara1 was talking about.

Woman in hall. I posted it before and it was a dark pic so I lightened it up this time!

https://ibb.co/mjo0qb

Faces in closet,

https://ibb.co/ibRnAm

https://ibb.co/e4OZqm

Last edited by Eastcoast (10/19/2017 9:14 pm)

lara1 · 10/19/2017 10:57 pm

Thanks Eastcoast!

All - the second and third images are what I am talking about, the other child in the closet. in the second photo, there are two faces, little Liz is on the left (out of focus) and the other child on the right.

then, in the following pic (the last one in Eastcoast's posting), that right hand image is sort of floating around like a ghost. When you watch it live on the screen the image is kind of floating, like a kind of apparition.

out of the both shots, is what I think is adult Liz, to the left of the two, but again not visible in these cuts.

Eastcoast - I'f never seen that pic of the woman in the hall before, at least not that clearly. looks like someone with red hair. now we know if may be KR.

Eastcoast · 10/20/2017 11:48 am

And I have a few more but those get the point across.

I left the time scale on the bottom of the pic so you all could see about where to look when you watch that episode again.

Eastcoast · 10/20/2017 11:52 am

Lara1, the hair is very dark in the original pic. I will try to post later.
I'm traveling right now.

JackPow · 10/20/2017 6:09 pm

I always took those multiple closet girl images to just be the cinematographer's way of illustrating "fuzzy memory." Kind of like how we used to watch kids shows and a character would get bonked on the head and they'd start seeing multiples. They obviously didn't want the viewer to see TOO clearly so early in he series so "fuzzy memory" gives us just enough while still distorting the images to make it trippy, as one might experience a flashback in one's mind.

But only time will tell! I love hearing everyone's theories!

Another "fuzzy morph" example is in the opening sequence/theme of The Blacklist. Do they even show it anymore at the beginning of the show? How Red is sitting in the chair (as we used to see in posters when the show first premiered) and his face gets kind of morphed/distorted while we the viewer hears an "interference" sound sort of like TV static/snow. Obviously, I'm not in film production because I'm sure there are actual common terms for the things I'm describing! Hopefully you guys will know what I mean.

Last edited by JackPow (10/20/2017 6:14 pm)

lara1 · 10/20/2017 7:16 pm

JackPow - yes, we have done a lot of analysis on the opening montage and the symbols underneath Red and Liz's respective images. Not sure where it is, but we analyzed the upside down triangle with Liz and the sort of coda symbol beneath Red's image....LOL we had a lot of fun with that!

With the girls in the closet, I do think the two girls are different then there is that sort of ghostly image. I can't decide whether there is literally a third girl in the closet (Liz, little Liz, second little girl) or if its more symbolic, like a presence, i.e. the girl no longer exists and there may or may not have been a former connection with Liz (i.e. sister or other family member). Then again I do love the "two Lizzies" theory! LOL I guess time will tell.

The other day I was thinking, what if the ending is so simple and none of our theories turns out to be of any consequence! LOL still fun to theorize!

Eastcoast · 11/12/2017 3:50 am

I have had thoughts about the fire night and her memories of it and KR in Cape May.

I think that KR tried to get Liz 2 times. Once on the night of the fire that we saw and another time when Sam had her and the 2 run together in Liz's head. And of course we have some memories being replaced with good ones.
I think all the good memories like playing outside and a 'rescue' of some sort were the replacement. She had a burn mark that needed to be explained so maybe a thought was placed of her being rescued by her father.
It is just too odd that KR would yell her name and she wouldn't come out of the closet. She did not recognize Kates voice at the door and I think she was with her more than anyone else. So she wouldn't remember KR either.
I am thinking that besides the night of the fire, KR went back to Sam's to get her and couldn't. We don't see her going to a phone booth in Cape May. Maybe she called Kate but then decided to go get Liz and Sam wouldn't let her and Red got involved and that would lead her going to Cape May. My other thought is she took her and they went to Cape May and Sam and Red found them there.
Here is why I think that but I could be wrong. KR said for her to go to Sam's. She was ok with that. I am sure she didn't think he was going to take her memories from her and maybe that is why she was crying that her child was being raised by someone else.
I had a few other thoughts but I am sooo tired.....

lara1 · 11/12/2017 11:40 am

Eastcoast, I have also wondered why, if KR was calling her and she was with her Mother more than her "father", why she would not come out of the closet. And in the memory recall session she never said that she saw her Mother - she says she saw her Father and we see her calling out No Daddy!. So the options are: that wasn't KR fighting with the man outside the closet, Liz still does not remember her Mother being there, or her name wasn't Masha (heheh). My thoughts are either that she still doesn't remember (she has no memory of her mother) or the people are still mixed up in her memory. But, regardless why did she not come out of the closet? Daddy seems to have had a strong impact on her.

Eastcoast · 11/13/2017 2:15 am

That is why I am thinking that there might be another time involved after her name was changed because the man said, her name is Elizabeth.

Eastcoast · 1/08/2018 6:49 pm

This is just a random thought that ran through my head....
I was watching the Pilot and Braxton 2 last night. We have discussed 2 different girls being in there. But what if they are both Liz at 2 different ages?
After seeing the Pilot where she said she was 14 which I thought was a mistake and then looking at that one I thought the girl in the closet looked like she could have been around that age. That would be 1999. I just wondered if there could have been any reason she had to hide again in a closet. OR, was hiding in it and overheard a conversation/argument?
We have said it looked like there might have been 2 different times. I know 1 would be the real fire and 2 would be the memory replacement which were pretty close together when she was 4.

lara1 mentioned about the eyes merging together not long ago and I was thinking what if its her memories merging together when she was at different ages.

lara1 · 1/08/2018 11:51 pm

Hi east coast. to me, that third girl in the closet looked like a child, not an adolescent, the proportions of the face esp the eyes and nose.....though the image is so faint and vague I think we all bring our own perceptions to it. It could just be symbolizing the "real" memory and the "implanted" one. But I think it shows or symbolizes another child, when taken with the the second bunny and the two drawings - to me, one was done by a much younger child, the styles are different.

But I suppose that could also point to your idea of Liz being there at two different ages.

Last edited by lara1 (1/08/2018 11:52 pm)

Eastcoast · 1/09/2018 4:32 pm

Lara1, I meant the pic from post 22. Other 2 are definitely younger.

1/15/2018 7:10 pm

Has anyone else ever wondered if KR could have set the fire? It has crossed my mind before when I think about KR's personality and how differently she is perceived every time we see her because it's from other people's perspectives (minus the diary, which is just Liz reading out loud in her head). I have two types of KR in my head when I think about her. One is more like Red, the other is completely psychopathic, manipulating everyone in her life, unafraid to use her own child as a pawn. What if she set the fire to force Red to give Liz and the Fulcrum to her, knowing he would never let Liz die and wouldn't want the Fulcrum destroyed? Then after she gets what she wants, she either attacks him or leaves him there to die. Or if he was going to resist giving her Liz, then at least if she couldn't have Liz, neither would he? That gets super dark, but sometimes I wonder about Katarina. Red never really speaks ill of her (besides saying she died of weakness and shame), which I've never been able to decide if it's because he still loves her and even if she had some flaws, he doesn't want to taint Liz against her mother's memory, or if it's because he doesn't want her to know what kind of person her mother was because she was so evil.

Last edited by Brittany (1/15/2018 7:38 pm)

Eastcoast · 1/16/2018 2:43 am

Brittany, I think one of us threw that out there a while back. Anything is possible! Dont remember if it was here or it Might have been on the other board?

I have 2 of her in my head too. One of her as the cold hearted spy and all the things you mentioned. But the other KR I saw at Cape May was becoming scared and afraid unable to think her way out of the mess she was in.

Tuxie400 · 1/16/2018 9:38 am

I've thought from time to time that Katarina might have set the fire. I've always wondered if she set someone on fire and that's what Red didn't want Liz to see. I've also thought she might have set the fire to destroy the body of whoever Liz shot.