The Blacklist Refugees » Summer 2017 Discussion

Eastcoast · 6/12/2017 8:21 pm

Yes Tuxie! I did, but it looks like 2 to me up at the top of the nose. I had said in a previous post that the right side looks like it has been caved in.
At first, I was thinking it could be who Liz shot, but it looked like he grabbed his chest when she did that. Plus that would be a kill shot, right between the eyes. In her memory he was moving in the floor.
I am looking for another picture host. Imagebam is not working for me and it says they are shutting down. I want one where I can post larger pics on here. I have the pics blown up and I circled what I saw.

lara, it reminded me of a bike chain too. lol
there is what looks like another metal object similar to the other one on the right side of the skull between the 2 longer bones. And a rectangular metal object below the ribcage.
I see something in the bottom left but do not know what it is Yet. I am hoping when S4 is released on Dvd it will show up better.

Last edited by Eastcoast (6/12/2017 8:22 pm)

lara1 · 6/12/2017 10:33 pm

OK I had another look at the metal object in the middle with the chain thing running from it/over it and noticed that it looks like a kind of arm running out from it from the right, almost like a handle of a hammer, then the metal bit would be the hammer head. However, if you rotate the photo so that the metal bit is facing "up", with the long handle looking thing then extending from beneath it (i.e. its then vertical rather than horizontal on the screen), it kind of looks like an anchor with chains attached.

anyone else think that's what it could be? It could just be my brain jumping to see that because I have in the back of my head it can be Katarina, a child, or the real RR and with all of the water/ocean clues in the series I think my mind jumped to that. But it could be anything really,

I certainly will be looking at the ocean clues/boat names more carefully during the re-watch!

lara1 · 6/12/2017 10:47 pm

OK so my curiosity got the better of me and I could not resist briefly looking up types and sizes of anchors. hmmm, and of course there are all types and sizes and shapes of anchors depending on size of boat and where the anchor is used (sand, mud, etc). Well to me the metal object looks more and more like some kind of anchor with the attached chain.

But it will probably turn out to be something completely and utterly different.......

Tuxie400 · 6/12/2017 11:02 pm

Eastcoast - The hole I see on top of the nose is small, black and perfectly round. I only see one hole - not two. This is funny, but it reminds me of a paper punch hole, or a hole made by a drill. As for a photo host, I used to use Photobucket for my photos. They come out full size. But the last time I tried to use it with the blowups from the suitcase skeleton, I couldn't successfully import my photos here. The problem may have been temporary.

lara1- I was thinking the pulley might have been for an anchor, so if that's an anchor you are seeing, they could go together. The anchor pulleys are sort of like what moves a bike chain.

I also had a thought about why the feet and hands are missing from the bag of bones. I read that when a body is in water for awhile, the first parts to detach are the hands and feet, followed by the head.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (6/12/2017 11:05 pm)

lara1 · 6/16/2017 11:13 am

OK, I watched Requiem again last night - gearing up for my series re-watch, LOL

There are still some things that stand out re KR that don't make sense

1. We have it previously mentioned a couple of times that KR was ghost, rumor, no one even thought she existed but was a compilation of stories. Yet there she is, by her SPY name, out in the open, married to a prominent billionaire, who is well known. She disappears into the ocean and the news story relates this as well.

2. Likewise, with "Masha", supposedly no one, not even members of the super secret US intelligence services, it seems, ever knew that Masha existed (until she was outed). Yet, when Masha was "abducted" the police were called and apparently some kind of report ensued. And, if KR knew that RR took Masha, why even bother with the police? And if Masha's existence was supposed to be a secret, wouldn't that have exposed Masha's existence and put her at risk? And why/how could Masha be a secret anyway if she was the daughter of a well known billionaire?

For #1, my theory is that the "ghost" story was made up, a cover up by someone high up, with or without the knowledge of the sub-agency (forgot the name) dealing with Russian matters that was blown up back in Season 2. Someone in the US intelligence apparatus wanted her to be unknown. And, apparently the Russians did too - Velov denied KR's existence to everyone including Red. Yet he knew she existed because he was trying to track her down at one point. And from everyone's words when speaking about KR, I don't think they were talking about her post-disappearance, though I could be wrong. But to me that still doesn't explain how her "real" name was also her "spy name" to which everyone referred.

Re #2 I don't know - some people did know about Masha's existence as the woman voice in the fire memories says Masha was threatened. And, the Director seemed to know her.

But it all still doesn't add up to me. Unless there were 2 KRs. But I won't even go there because that just gets too confusing! and most likely isn't the case.

Wondering if anyone else has had any further thoughts on these discrepancies?

Yet another thing (in the ever growing list, LOL!) to look out for in the re-watch!

Tuxie400 · 6/16/2017 6:11 pm

Two KRs! Oh no, I couldn't take that. We've considered two RR and two Elizabeths. The thought of two KRs might push me over the edge. LOL I agree with your points about things about KR that don't make sense.

I used to think discrepancies were clues. Now I think they're just mistakes by the staff. When I rewatch TBL, it will just be for entertainment purposes only. I believe there have been retcons and changes in direction. I don't think much can be figured out - especially when they keep adding totally new pieces that seem to change what we thought we knew.

I've had fun theorizing for four years. But I'm going to do less of it in the future. I still love the show to pieces. I just don't think it's been worth all the time I've spent thinking about it.

lara1 · 6/16/2017 11:22 pm

Tuxie400 - I agree that some mistakes have been made, I suppose that is inevitable with the complexities of the show and the different writers and directors (as on other shows I guess). I also think there is a lot we still don't know. I am hopeful that now that Redemption is put to bed, more energy and focus can be returned to TBL. And I guess we do know a lot more than we did this time last year. Or at least we think we do LOL.

I have a question for you. A couple of months ago you wrote about a number of discoveries you made when doing research into themes that appear on the show, including the story of someone, I think, whose actions or background mirrored Red's. From watching the sequential episodes of TBL that have aired since that discovery, do you feel that what we have learned has negated some of that, confirmed it more, or had a more or less neutral effect on it? Just curious.

lara1 · 6/20/2017 12:15 am

OK, I started a re-watch of selected episodes before I launch in for the marathon of 1.01 through 4.22 and I am stuck once again on the theory of two girls (just for a change, LOL).

I re-watched Artax and Luther Braxton, I still see another "ghost image" of another girl in the closet with little Liz, and though nothing totally new leapt out at me I got to thinking about the child's drawing found in Dom's garage. This was also sparked by a posting on another board about the drawings though the points I am making here I didn't see discussed there and they include things previously discussed in this group.

(I don't think we'll know for a while why that drawing in Dom's garage was more or less identical to the one in the Summer Palace, so I'll skip that for now).

At the time Artax aired, on the other board we discussed the drawing and some folks commented on how the hair color on all three people in the child's drawing was dark, when we had seen Katarina in various guises but with lighter, or at least, not dark brown, hair (though she could have at any time dyed it I suppose). then the man has dark hair also. Someone commented that children sometimes draw things that way, i.e. with a lot of dark colors and lines.

One of the things that always stood out to me about that drawing was that the girl and the woman were both wearing dresses, kind of like triangles. Yes, they are literally triangles drawn on as dresses/clothing. And we have that triangle symbol. I can't connect the symbol as such yet but my point is, Katarina (and for that matter, Liz, generally) is not seen wearing skirts/dresses. Now that we have also seen Requiem and Mato, I don't think Katarina was ever wearing one. Yet the woman in the Dom/Summer Palace drawings is wearing a dress/skirt. Couple of points:

1. Kate is almost always wearing skirts, and has dark hair. Was that not a picture of Katarina as we have thought, but of Kate? Not that it would make much difference. But to move on from the Kate idea for a moment, that got me thinking:
2. Was the picture drawn by another girl?

Just when I think that Masha and Liz are the same person, along comes another thought, or something like this drawing, which doesn't make sense - especially when you compare it to the drawing from fire house, which

- seems to show both the man and woman with light colored hair
- seems to show the woman with trousers (drawn similarly to what the man is wearing, though I admit its hard to tell)
- seems to be in a completely different style - the picture at Dom's/at Summer Palace is very clear, with large, boldly drawn figures and is densely colored; that at fire house is more like a light, scribble drawing, with incomplete, indistinct shapes and little coloring.
-it is hard to tell the hair color of the child, there isn't much hair drawn, it could be light or dark..IMO

Of course both drawings could have been done by the same girl at different ages, I suppose - but Liz, from what we understand was "abducted" at the age of 4, so if the picture at fire house was hers, the other would seem to be done by another child, or vice-versa.

Also - wild thought - yes I am getting those again - what if the "Masha" on the picture at Summer Palace isn't a "signature" as we assume, but another girl noting that its a picture of Masha, not drawn by, Masha. And taking, that one step further - what if the drawing is by another girl, showing her and Masha -- i.e. 2 girls, and a third figure, a man (a father?). Not a drawing by Masha of her and her mother and father as we are assuming. I know, probably too much of a stretch. But something about the 2 drawings being so different doesn't add up.

Final note: the drawing at fire house, showing what looks like light haired man and woman, also has an apple tree. As in, the red apples at Tansi Farms.........

So another theory could be that the drawing at fire house was not done by Liz at all but by the other girl - and was that girl "Elizabeth" at fire house - and could it be bubble girl, and/or what will be found at Tansi Farms? - whereas the "Masha" drawing was made by "Liz/Masha".

I'm wondering whether anyone in the group is a children's teacher or would otherwise have a more educated opinion than mine on the differences in the two drawings?

oh boy. LOL.

Edited to add: one other thought - the woman in the home movies was wearing a (I think blue) dress. Like in the Masha/Dom drawings.

Last edited by lara1 (6/20/2017 12:20 am)

Eastcoast · 6/20/2017 12:27 am

Ok, I stopped skipping around and I am doing my re-watch. I watched The Freelancer twice. I played the part of them at the dinner table over and over and stopped it every second to see if we missed her taking the glass and did not see her take it.
So far I have not seen Tom taking out the trash etc...

Interesting what you pick up on after each season is done and you look at it again.

A few Observations so far...

I have not seen any scars on his neck like the ones I saw in Cape May.

Im not sure if anyone ever said where the Apple man crew came from, but it seams like it would come from Diane Fowler.

I feel that Cooper knew for sure he was turning himself in.
I noticed He smiles a Lot at stuff with him.
He was really pushing for Red in his meeting with Diane and the others. Cooper really wants the big criminals and im wondering if that was part of the deal?

Tuxie, I was wondering the same thing lara1 asked you?

Getting sleeeeepy...

Last edited by Eastcoast (6/20/2017 12:30 am)

Tatiana · 6/21/2017 8:45 am

Hi all! I don't know if anyone has posted this but The Blacklist will return on Wednesday October 4th. Seems like a late start, but I'm not tv savvy :-)

Honey West · 6/25/2017 7:30 pm

lara1 wrote:
OK, I started a re-watch of selected episodes before I launch in for the marathon of 1.01 through 4.22 and I am stuck once again on the theory of two girls (just for a change, LOL).

I re-watched Artax and Luther Braxton, I still see another "ghost image" of another girl in the closet with little Liz, and though nothing totally new leapt out at me I got to thinking about the child's drawing found in Dom's garage. This was also sparked by a posting on another board about the drawings though the points I am making here I didn't see discussed there and they include things previously discussed in this group.

(I don't think we'll know for a while why that drawing in Dom's garage was more or less identical to the one in the Summer Palace, so I'll skip that for now).

At the time Artax aired, on the other board we discussed the drawing and some folks commented on how the hair color on all three people in the child's drawing was dark, when we had seen Katarina in various guises but with lighter, or at least, not dark brown, hair (though she could have at any time dyed it I suppose). then the man has dark hair also. Someone commented that children sometimes draw things that way, i.e. with a lot of dark colors and lines.

One of the things that always stood out to me about that drawing was that the girl and the woman were both wearing dresses, kind of like triangles. Yes, they are literally triangles drawn on as dresses/clothing. And we have that triangle symbol. I can't connect the symbol as such yet but my point is, Katarina (and for that matter, Liz, generally) is not seen wearing skirts/dresses. Now that we have also seen Requiem and Mato, I don't think Katarina was ever wearing one. Yet the woman in the Dom/Summer Palace drawings is wearing a dress/skirt. Couple of points:

1. Kate is almost always wearing skirts, and has dark hair. Was that not a picture of Katarina as we have thought, but of Kate? Not that it would make much difference. But to move on from the Kate idea for a moment, that got me thinking:
2. Was the picture drawn by another girl?

Just when I think that Masha and Liz are the same person, along comes another thought, or something like this drawing, which doesn't make sense - especially when you compare it to the drawing from fire house, which

- seems to show both the man and woman with light colored hair
- seems to show the woman with trousers (drawn similarly to what the man is wearing, though I admit its hard to tell)
- seems to be in a completely different style - the picture at Dom's/at Summer Palace is very clear, with large, boldly drawn figures and is densely colored; that at fire house is more like a light, scribble drawing, with incomplete, indistinct shapes and little coloring.
-it is hard to tell the hair color of the child, there isn't much hair drawn, it could be light or dark..IMO

Of course both drawings could have been done by the same girl at different ages, I suppose - but Liz, from what we understand was "abducted" at the age of 4, so if the picture at fire house was hers, the other would seem to be done by another child, or vice-versa.

Also - wild thought - yes I am getting those again - what if the "Masha" on the picture at Summer Palace isn't a "signature" as we assume, but another girl noting that its a picture of Masha, not drawn by, Masha. And taking, that one step further - what if the drawing is by another girl, showing her and Masha -- i.e. 2 girls, and a third figure, a man (a father?). Not a drawing by Masha of her and her mother and father as we are assuming. I know, probably too much of a stretch. But something about the 2 drawings being so different doesn't add up.

Final note: the drawing at fire house, showing what looks like light haired man and woman, also has an apple tree. As in, the red apples at Tansi Farms.........

So another theory could be that the drawing at fire house was not done by Liz at all but by the other girl - and was that girl "Elizabeth" at fire house - and could it be bubble girl, and/or what will be found at Tansi Farms? - whereas the "Masha" drawing was made by "Liz/Masha".

I'm wondering whether anyone in the group is a children's teacher or would otherwise have a more educated opinion than mine on the differences in the two drawings?

oh boy. LOL.

Edited to add: one other thought - the woman in the home movies was wearing a (I think blue) dress. Like in the Masha/Dom drawings.

I think the pictures were meant to be the same, but were redrawn for the Artax episode hoping we wouldn't notice the differing details.

lara1 · 6/25/2017 10:31 pm

Honey West - welcome back! hope you had a great vacation!

Well I am beginning to wonder whether some of the puzzles about some of the props in the series are just that - non identical replacements that are meant to stand in for one and the same thing! LOL. it will be fun if and when we find out the answers!

lara1 · 6/25/2017 10:33 pm

Did anyone watch the Prime Suspect prequel that aired tonight on PBS? I don't think anything can come close to Helen Mirren and Prime Suspect, but it was interesting enough to keep my attention, especially the retro 1970s London vibe.

I mention it because if you watched carefully, Stratos! made an appearance. Not as Stratos of course, but the actor was in this first episode of the prequel. Not a main character but there nonetheless.

Honey West · 6/27/2017 10:12 am

Of course I had some thoughts pop up about Liz and that DNA test. Who has seen it? Liz and maybe Red. Just suppose that what Liz showed Red wasn't the real test. What if she is playing him to see what he'll do if he thinks that she believes that he is her real father? Whether he is or not is sort of irrelevant anymore. KR told Kate that Raymond believed that Masha was his, but she never found out for sure. The point being that he believed it to be true. We know that she seduced other men as part of her job, so, really, her father could have been one of them just as easily. But he believed it and it could be that obsession which is the real story. Of course it could simply be that he is her real father. But the resulting feelings and obsession with protecting her would be the same.

I think they are going to have some interesting dynamics to explore this next season.

Eastcoast · 6/27/2017 9:51 pm

HW, welcome back home! Glad you are back safe! and sound? lol
Wouldn't that be an interesting twist?

Eastcoast · 6/27/2017 9:53 pm

lara1 wrote:
Did anyone watch the Prime Suspect prequel that aired tonight on PBS? I don't think anything can come close to Helen Mirren and Prime Suspect, but it was interesting enough to keep my attention, especially the retro 1970s London vibe.

I mention it because if you watched carefully, Stratos! made an appearance. Not as Stratos of course, but the actor was in this first episode of the prequel. Not a main character but there nonetheless.

No I did not see it. But it is really something that we just cant get away form it! lol
I am doing my marathon also. Interesting how things look in season 1 knowing all the things we do now.

Honey West · 6/27/2017 10:09 pm

Eastcoast wrote:
HW, welcome back home! Glad you are back safe! and sound? lol
Wouldn't that be an interesting twist?

Yeah, with all the craziness in the world these days, you can't help but have that little thought in the back of your mind that you hope "they" won't hit the airport you're traveling to.

On the other hand, yes, that would be an interesting twist. I am a little suspicious of Liz's motives these days. They never really did have much closure regarding her faked death and its affect on Red. They just sort of passed over that area. Plus there is still the fact that Liz was raised by Sam. He was her only real father for most of her life. And Red killed him. Now she is accepting him into her family with no questions? There has to be a lot of major unresolved stuff there between them. That's why I say, there could be a lot of craziness to explore between those two next season. I wonder if they will go into it or just say, here it is, accept it and move on to the blacklisters of the week? I just hope they write us some great stories.

Last edited by Honey West (6/27/2017 10:09 pm)

Honey West · 7/04/2017 10:52 pm

Happy 4th of July to everyone! I just noticed there hasn't been any activity for a few days so I thought I'd post something!

Haven't started my rewatch yet. Might wait to get the Blurays. I'm sure any deleted scenes will be interesting. Plus I like the commentaries that they usually include. I think one might be for Requiem.

Honey West · 7/05/2017 3:12 am

Okay, I looked at the suitcase skeleton again on the DVR and froze it just before Tom closes the lid. Looked at it on a large HDTV. I am just not seeing any pulleys or chains or metal objects. All I am seeing is a nicely made prop skeleton that has been chopped or sawn to pieces. I'm not even sure it's a complete skeleton. I think there's a lot of it missing. The bones appear to have dessecated flesh clinging to them. The cut edges seem to be old. We can see parts of the pelvis and one might assume the bone in the middle is supposed to be a broken femur. Under that is the lower spine. I think the sawn section on the lower right might be the sternum. The skull seems small to me, but it could be that the back of it is missing. Seems small compared to Tom's hand.. The shape doesn't seem quite right for the left orbit in relation to the nasal bone. Seems flattened. Wish we could see more of the skull. Seems feminine to me, though. Note: I did studies of skulls for an anthropology class many years ago and also used that when sculpting models for 3D makeup work later on. I had to craft a body for a short film once that had been kept in a barrel of brandy for decades. It's funny how much suitcase body reminds me of brandy body. I wish I'd been able to keep that prop. Would've been a lot of fun for Halloween!

Honey West · 7/05/2017 3:20 pm

I think my main question about the suitcase besides who's bones those might be is who was Tom talking to on the phone? First thought might be that it was one of Kate's people, confirming that he had the suitcase and was following Kate's instructions. But another thought I had was that maybe he was talking to Red, who had already found out Kate's plan for it and was having Tom intercept it before it could go to Liz. That might explain why Tom opened it to check the contents. Otherwise why would he do that if her instructions were so clear? A more far-out person might be that he was talking to Kirk. Perhaps Kate had informed him about the suitcase as well? The only thing I could figure for sure is that whoever it was, it was somebody who cares about the suitcase and what's in it. That sort of narrows it down, right?

So who would even care about the suitcase and what Red "did to Katarina"? Kate, Red, Liz, Tom, the KGB, Katarina, Dom, Velov, US Intelligence, whoever Red really works for? Somebody new?