The Blacklist Refugees

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10/03/2017 3:08 pm  #1


Episode 5.05

Is called "Ilyas Surkov".
https://twitter.com/spoilertv/status/915026661745221637

Remember, this is the one written by the Brandon's.

Plus, I read another thing that seems to indicate that flash forward with Tom is for the mid season cliffhanger.


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
 

10/03/2017 6:12 pm  #2


Re: Episode 5.05

I'm excited for this one.  They said it's going to be big.  

 

10/03/2017 6:33 pm  #3


Re: Episode 5.05

Thanks HW, and that info about the Tom future flash forward, seems to lean more towards that its an actual future flash, rather than Tom thinking about what would happen to him if Red found out he had the suitcase.  I think its something that will actually happen, although not necessarily in the way we have seen.  

Brittany - yes I am very excited for this (ep 5) too given what the Brandons have said!

 

10/03/2017 11:09 pm  #4


Re: Episode 5.05

Tvline has been saying for weeks that a major character on a major show was going to die in the season premiere. They confirm that it's Tom Keen, although in their interview with JB they do say we don't see Tom actually expire. And it seems that they aren't positive that Tom will actually die, that decision isn't 100%. Also that flash forward is two months in the future and what we see from here until then is what leads up to that event, sprinkled with clues.


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
     Thread Starter
 

10/04/2017 12:55 am  #5


Re: Episode 5.05

I will be very disappointed if it is Tom. He is a main part of the show to me. The 3 of them are all main to the story for me.  I think he keeps things interesting.  A lot / most of my family have stopped watching.    They said keep them informed. 
They dragged out the daddy issue so long they got tired of it.  Another said if Tom dies they are done too. They said this episode was ok.... but not the same feel.  No Kaplan or Baz. They don't like the casual look, It is Too causual, Too much of a change for them at one time. I'm hoping they don't drag this stuff out with the bones.

Last edited by Eastcoast (10/04/2017 12:56 am)


It's a shame you have no crackers  
 

10/04/2017 1:59 am  #6


Re: Episode 5.05

I think they need to keep Tom around to provide the third corner to the triangle. I think Tom is the one thing that can come between Red and Liz and whatever happens to him, Liz will probably blame Red and that would really be something she couldn't forgive. So if Tom dies I think Red is pretty much doomed whether he pulls the trigger or is, in fact, trying to rescue him. Either way, it will be because of the bones, and they will be Red's fault. I think Tom's fate will be decided by that. If Red discovers that Tom has learned the secret of the bones and what they lead to, will he sacrifice Tom in order to protect Liz and himself. In so doing he will certainly lose Liz if she finds out. Would he risk that? Even though he told her she could just walk away, I think he said it because he knew she wouldn't. But if he causes Tom's death? I think old Red might be heading for another Hobson's choice.

Of course, if Liz is kept totally in the dark about what Tom is up to with the bones, then Red might not have that much to worry about. But he is involving Nik, so the secret won't just be with Tom, but will be with someone else who has a complicated relationship with her.


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
     Thread Starter
 

10/04/2017 9:41 am  #7


Re: Episode 5.05

I'm OK with Tom staying as long as it is in a small role.  I think he provides a tension counterpoint.  I just don't want it to be all about Tom and Liz.  But I still think Tom is hiding a big secret of his own and that he knows more than he lets on.  He's withheld other stuff from Liz and gone behind her back even in recent episodes.  And we learned last Season that he did work for the CIA.  Who knows what he was involved in and what he knows.

Interesting comments, HoneyWest about Red perhaps having to face another Hobson's choice.  

Last edited by lara1 (10/04/2017 9:43 am)

 

10/04/2017 10:15 am  #8


Re: Episode 5.05

Oh yes, I believe Tom has way more secrets than we've been shown. After all, he is still living as Tom Keen, a made-up persona. Is he doing that to save Liz some complications with her identity? Her name would start looking like Liz Taylor if she included all of the possible surnames in her life. Remember the Tom Jacob Jingleheimer, etc. topic on the old board? 

But I think the thing with Tom still goes back to his recruitment by The Major and whatever group he represented. Was the Major CIA? Or was he an independent recruiter for groups like the CIA? Highest bidder for whomever? Red knew him. We never did get the full history between them. The Major being about 20 years older than Red, I think it's even possible that he recruited young Raymond, or tried to. We still don't know enough about Red's early pre-Naval Academy history to even begin to go there. And how does Sam figure into all of this? I think Sam is also somehow tied into the Major's organization. The Major was like Fagin. 


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
     Thread Starter
 

10/12/2017 6:27 pm  #9


Re: Episode 5.05

There have been quite a few photos released about this episode.  It shows Liz and Tom at a funeral, Red Dembe apparently hang back, but Liz talks to Red.  Liz looks upset at one point and Tom comforts her, but then looks a little more at ease with Red in another picture.  Who dies? 

I'm not sure where the timeline is as of 5.03, but it seems like a funeral would have already been held for Baz or Kaplan by now, so perhaps this is someone else?   Nik?  

 

10/12/2017 7:46 pm  #10


Re: Episode 5.05

Hi Brittany, I thought that curious also.  Given who is there, Tom/Liz with Liz upset and Red/Dembe in the background, the logical person would be Kaplan.  And that scene kind of a parallel with the funeral for Liz's fake death and a nice twist back to that.  But I agree, it does also seem to be a long time gap, even if 5.01 picked up immediately after Kaplan went over the bridge.  I guess we'll have to wait to see.

 

10/12/2017 10:12 pm  #11


Re: Episode 5.05

Well, since
Kate's death was part of a crime scene and she had no next of kin who claimed her body, its quite possible that she is just now being buried. Crime victims bodies are often not turned over to their families right away in real life. Kate's special circumstances might have delayed her funeral for some time. Normally you might expect Red t have, through his intermediaries, taken care of her. But he has been so busy and without his normal means, I'm sure he couldn't get her buried any sooner. I think that even after what she did to him that he might take care of things, but he hasn't been able to. Then there are still people out there, apparently, who are still loyal to Kate and I'm sure would use the opportunity to go after Red. Just look at Dennison, for example.

Either that or we find that the bones were Katarina and they are giving her a final, decent, burial. Or if not Katarina, they belong to someone else that Liz might grieve for. Oh heck, it could even be Dom. He didnt look entirely well the last time we saw him.


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
     Thread Starter
 

10/12/2017 11:28 pm  #12


Re: Episode 5.05

HoneyWest, agree it could be any of those people -  If its Kate, I wonder if we will meet her sister?  Maybe not, since she is in witness protection?  I'm not sure the suitcase will be solved by then - though didn't the Brandons promise a bombshell in ep 5?  Hmmmmm

Back to the bones for a second, I'm curious how they will identify them.  Sure they can extract the DNA but unless they have the person's DNA to run it against (I'm not sure how likely that DNA exists out there in a database), its kind of a mystery to me how it will be identified.  So I'm guessing that the person is related to someone else.....the most likely options being Liz or Red (or "original" Red if you include the imposter theory).  Should be interesting to see how they find outl

One thing I thought of earlier today is that comment I made when I saw this week's episode - that the bones were exposed to the AIR so they are degraded.  So we have recently seen Red kill someone and leave them to the "air" as it were.  hmmm so is it pointing to someone he killed?  And if so, who is that person?

Questions, questions......

Last edited by lara1 (10/12/2017 11:28 pm)

 

10/13/2017 12:01 am  #13


Re: Episode 5.05

The first thought that came to mind when I saw the pics was Kaplan. Maybe she will get Liz's old grave? Wonder who is in there???    wouldn't it be interesting if Kaplan left a surprise in There? Lol

Last edited by Eastcoast (10/13/2017 12:02 am)


It's a shame you have no crackers  
 

10/13/2017 9:33 am  #14


Re: Episode 5.05

I think it's way too late for this funeral to be for Kate or Baz. Just because we don't see anyone else from the task force in the photos, doesn't mean they aren't in attendance. Maybe it's a member of the task force.

 

10/13/2017 10:17 am  #15


Re: Episode 5.05

Good point about the DNA, lara1. Unless it's someone in the DNA database or someone who's had a recent DNA test run  , then it would be difficult to identify them specifically. They would only get a profile of the person, not their name. Hard to say. I wonder if the DNA will show them to be a close match to Red and/or Liz? They could also get someone to do a facial reconstruction from the skull that could be interesting. It would be very wild if the DNA was an identical match to Red or Liz, like an identical twin might be?


“I am exactly who I am. And I can assure you, I’m a far more interesting Raymond Reddington than Raymond Reddington ever was."
     Thread Starter
 

10/13/2017 10:33 am  #16


Re: Episode 5.05

Honey West - Good point that a facial reconstruction might be done. I'm think the DNA will eventually be compared to Liz.

 

10/13/2017 1:45 pm  #17


Re: Episode 5.05

Tom is still hunting in episode 6 press release so the DNA must not be a smoking gun for anything if he’s still investigating.  I wonder if he would think to run it against Liz’s DNA to see if it is someone related to her or if he wouldn’t consider it?

 

10/13/2017 3:08 pm  #18


Re: Episode 5.05

I wonder if this is where "fake DNA" (as opposed to faking DNA test results) may come into play.
The Alchemist was able to alter DNA so that when the "fakes" died, their DNA led people to believe they were people other than what they were; and whatever Frederick Barnes did to make the dead family appear to be his own.

I wonder how the "tooth" "Dna" plays into that; and didn't we have an episode where teeth were replaced in corpses?  I'm not saying that's the case here, but I wonder if all of that leads to a question over what we can believe about the corpse DNA anyway.   

 

10/13/2017 7:25 pm  #19


Re: Episode 5.05

I don't remember if teeth were replaced, but I know they were filed and fillings, etc added to match dental records in the Alchemist.   He used DNA from his daughter's cord blood and their toothbrushes to simulate the DNA for the fake family he left behind at the house.  The Alchemist was the only one who did fake DNA, if I remember correctly.  Did we ever figure out why Red took his victim list?  Was it to do with Berlin's daughter?  I can't remember.  He seemed too young to have been doing faked DNA in 1990.  I imagined he couldn't have been doing his work much before 2000.  He looked to be in his early 40s at most. 

 

10/17/2017 12:17 pm  #20


Re: Episode 5.05

If I remember correctly, Red used the list to track down Jolene Parker, though it would make sense if Red has a longer history with the Alchemist.

 

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