The Blacklist Refugees » The Suitcase

JackPow · 9/28/2017 3:30 pm

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to post someone else's words but full credit goes to a commenter on Reddit who wrote this interesting theory on what is in the suitcase. (I felt more comfortable copying and pasting the Reddit person's words than trying to re-phrase it myself)

Starting with fire night:

*****(quote)
With the shots and the fire, the Cabal men leave. Red saves Masha. He then goes back to save Katarina, who was badly injured and unconscious. That’s when he gets burned, but he still manages to save her. Red drops Masha with Kate (Kate’s memory was changed) and takes Katarina to the Tansi Farms, where they would be safer.
As Katarina recovers, Red realizes that she is now more of a risk to Masha’s life than he ever was, as she was now an enemy of both countries.
He decides to take an extreme measure. He is going to “kill” Masha – at least for a while. Only then, she will be safe.
His plan is simple, he will leave Masha with Sam, the only person he trusts and that nobody could link to him and fake her death. But since Katarina is too mentally unstable, he can’t tell her the truth, so she has to believe that Masha is dead, otherwise she could put the little girl in danger again. Red then gets the body of a deceased child with similar age/size of Masha. He burns the remains, so it would look as if she was the victim of a fire. When Katarina recovers, he tells her that Masha died in the fire. She is devastated as she blames herself for Masha’s death. They buried the body under the tree at the Tansi Farm. It pains Red to do it, but he sees no other way.
It's the Hobson’s choice he mentions.
In his mind, that it will be a temporary situation and soon Katarina and him will reunite with Masha.
However, not everything goes according to Red’s plan.
Hunted by both the agencies, and felling guilty over her daughter's dead, Katarina goes into a deep depression eventually vanishing into the sea.
Yet, another unintended and unexpected consequence of Red’s actions.
Red then vows to take care of Masha, whose mother he took away, but the entire ordeal made him a target as well, so he has to remain in the shadows. More than that, in order to protect her he has to “become an even bigger threat”. So goes rogue, becoming the criminal we know today.
********(end quote)

I found this to be an interesting possibility. Unless there are details that this Reddit person (and I) are forgetting. Did the bones come out of the ground IN the suitcase? If so, a father and mother wouldn't bury their beloved child in a suitcase so that ends that. Or did KATE put the bones into a suitcase after digging them up? (I don't recall) Anyway, I'm still wrapping my head around that possibility.

lara1 · 9/28/2017 4:05 pm

Hi JackPow, thanks for sharing. I think its interesting but I think quite a bit in both Requiem and the fire memories would negate it. I have thought from time to time that Kate's memories were altered. That could be the case, but I think if the show did that, then we can't really rely on anything. But we do see KR taking Masha to Kate, and also calls Kate to tell her to take Masha to Sam, and also, calls from Cape May as a way of saying "goodbye". That's a lot that would have to be changed in Kate's memory. Still, I guess that part is possible.

Also in the fire memory, Red (or a man) seems very badly injured. If that was really meant to be Red then he would be in no shape to help save Katarina So not sure if that all hangs together. - still its possible as there is a lot we still don't know about fire night.....

I've theorized that the suitcase was only more recently buried. It didn't look like it had been in the ground for decades, and the address tag, while having water stains on it, didn't have the kind of damage you'd expect for all of those years. And, it has a line for email address which did not exist 30 years ago. Of course, Kaplan could have attached it after it was dug up. but why then was it water stained?

I'd also thought and written about here at some point recently, wondering whether Masha's death was faked all those years ago to keep her safe - as her death was faked twice in Season 4. Was that a clue? So elements of the story could be true.

somehow though I don't think its a random girl's bones in the suitcase. Its something/someone that has a lot more meaning.

Just my take of course, But I loved reading this - it makes us all revisit what we know and opens our minds to other possibilities, which is good I think!

Last edited by lara1 (9/28/2017 4:06 pm)

JackPow · 9/28/2017 6:42 pm

Lara, you're totally right. How could I forget the entire Requiem episode and Kate's memories?!? I agree with you that if THAT many of Kate's memories were altered, then I just don't think I could take anything on the show seriously anymore. Oh well. That's the end of that. Haha.

lara1 · 9/28/2017 7:37 pm

Well, I don't totally rule out anything in this series. The writers made a cryptic comment about how the story in Requiem is Kate's story, as she knows it, or Kate's true memories or something like that. Pieces of the theory could be true - but I doubt that so many major pieces of the KR/Masha/Kate fire and post fire story are altered. I don't know what the point would be of doing that episode if that were the case. But one or two details, could be wrong or mis-remembered. I don't think KR told Kate everything and may in fact have fed her some lies. But I still tend to think that by and large, its Kate's true memories.

I think its always good to talk about other ideas though because they often serve as a jumping off point for a variation or alternative theory we hadn't thought of yet! Plus they are fun to read!

9/28/2017 8:23 pm

I agree that Requiem tends to negate some of this. Bokenkamp and the writers have said Kate's memories were reliable (which I took to mean not tampered, though obviously from her own perspective) so I don't think there has been any memory modification.

I too have considered the possibility that Red faked Elizabeth's death as a child to prevent Katarina from coming back for her. For me that was the theory I had if Katarina is in the suitcase (meaning she committed suicide and they buried her). But I find that unlikely. But I tend to agree with Lara1 that the suitcase is a more recent burial. It doesn't look like it has been in the ground for decades.

My suitcase theory as of 5x01 (because it may need to change after 5x02): It seems like the suitcase is going to be stirring up more than father-daughter tension, so I'm thinking it is something really big, really dangerous. I'm starting to come around to the idea that perhaps Red faked Katarina's death to get her enemies to back off and is holding her prisoner on the island. Someone has started to get suspicious over the past few years and Red is trying to keep ahead of them by inserting himself into the FBI and establishing the blacklist. I think the paternity revelation in addition to whatever is in the suitcase will end up having a bigger impact than Kaplan intended, especially since Bokenkamp commented in a couple of recent articles that Kaplan didn't know that the paternity reveal was coming when she planned to give Liz the truth (not sure if that means she didn't know he was the father or that Cooper was running the test). He mentioned that perhaps she would have done things differently. Cooper is now openly telling people at the FBI that Liz is Red's daughter, so you know that info is going to find it's way to the wrong crowd and definitely put Liz in danger whereas she may not have been (or less likely to have been) had no one known the truth. Plus, I'm still wondering how Laurel Hitchins' death will impact Red's standing within the Cabal. Oh how I wish they gave us an entire season at once.

Last edited by Brittany (9/28/2017 8:23 pm)

lara1 · 9/28/2017 8:43 pm

Hi Brittany, I'm thinking along similar lines. I think the suitcase is very very big and can likely cause events to spin out of control in the wrong hands. It may be Katarina, it may be something else but I do believe wherever the bones were initially, they had to be relocated because maybe someone was on the verge of discovering them and some great truth that will put all in danger. At the same time according to Kaplan that was the "truth" and why Red came back into Liz's life. I tend to think that meant that the discovery of them would put both Liz and Red (and maybe others) in danger. Maybe Kaplan thought that could be contained or she didnt know the complete significance of them.

At the same time its interesting that Red didn't really contemplate that Kaplan would dig up the suitcase. She was at war with him yet he did not secure them nor did he really know at first what she was talking about on the bridge. Its possible Kaplan didn't know the extent of what those bones meant.....

Word getting out that Liz is Red's daughter cannot be a good thing on any level. I remain surprised that Cooper put this thing in motion without kind of thinking it through. Its not as though Liz ever asked or wasn't capable of getting the truth herself. Yet another example in a way of someone else making decisions for her.

In any event, it makes me go back to the thoughts I originally had - did Cooper have a motive other than purely Liz's regard when he went after that sample. He seemed to do it when his back was pushed against the wall, when he thought the entire task force was going to be arrested. Why then did he do that? Was it a parachute of some kind? I can't think of how but it was all strange to me. But at the moment I'm just riding with it as a needed plot development to move along the overall story......

Last edited by lara1 (9/28/2017 8:46 pm)

Tuxie400 · 9/29/2017 9:21 am

I agree that the Reddit person's version of events negates too much of Kate's story. I too have considered that Red tricked Katarina into thinking Masha was dead. But while the bones looked like a child or teen to me, they don't look small enough to be a 4-year-old.

Last edited by Tuxie400 (10/26/2017 7:12 pm)

9/29/2017 10:15 am

My thinking at one point (and I haven't completely ruled it out, but have bumped it down the list) was that Red faked Liz's death as a child and that either Katarina killed herself and they buried her or Kate helped Katarina fake her death and buried a woman's body that would resemble Katarina's. In that case, perhaps she would want Liz to know what Red had done to keep her from her mother and to either believe she's dead or know she killed herself because of what he did. So with that theory, the bones would either be the real Katarina or a fake adult who Red believed was her.

Tuxie400 wrote:
I agree that the Reddit person's version events negates too much of Kate's story. I too have considered that Red tricked Katarina into thinking Masha was dead. But while the bones looked like a child or teen to me, they don't look small enough to be a 4-year-old.

9/29/2017 10:21 am

I am definitely suspicious of Cooper. I can't figure out what is going on with him, but it seems like he has plans of his own. I read somewhere that he and Red are going to be out in the field together sometime in the next few episodes so I wonder if more will be revealed then?

Bokenkamp said in an interview that the 8th and 9th episodes will be cliffhangers that push the series in a different direction. I wonder if the entire task force could be forced into the shadows? Perhaps the Cabal starts coming for all of them? I feel like Laurel Hitchins' death will bigger implications for everyone besides Ressler. Either in combination with or separate from the suitcase revelations.

lara1 wrote:
Hi Brittany, I'm thinking along similar lines. I think the suitcase is very very big and can likely cause events to spin out of control in the wrong hands. It may be Katarina, it may be something else but I do believe wherever the bones were initially, they had to be relocated because maybe someone was on the verge of discovering them and some great truth that will put all in danger. At the same time according to Kaplan that was the "truth" and why Red came back into Liz's life. I tend to think that meant that the discovery of them would put both Liz and Red (and maybe others) in danger. Maybe Kaplan thought that could be contained or she didnt know the complete significance of them.

At the same time its interesting that Red didn't really contemplate that Kaplan would dig up the suitcase. She was at war with him yet he did not secure them nor did he really know at first what she was talking about on the bridge. Its possible Kaplan didn't know the extent of what those bones meant.....

Word getting out that Liz is Red's daughter cannot be a good thing on any level. I remain surprised that Cooper put this thing in motion without kind of thinking it through. Its not as though Liz ever asked or wasn't capable of getting the truth herself. Yet another example in a way of someone else making decisions for her.

In any event, it makes me go back to the thoughts I originally had - did Cooper have a motive other than purely Liz's regard when he went after that sample. He seemed to do it when his back was pushed against the wall, when he thought the entire task force was going to be arrested. Why then did he do that? Was it a parachute of some kind? I can't think of how but it was all strange to me. But at the moment I'm just riding with it as a needed plot development to move along the overall story......

lara1 · 9/29/2017 2:44 pm

Brittany - agree with you on Cooper. And I'm really looking forward to this season. Someone mentioned that 7 I think is going to drop a huge truth. In Red's words - "well, we'll see about that." Ha ha

10/04/2017 2:53 am

I’ve been thinking about the suitcase and wondering if it ties into Kaplan not knowing about Dom. I’m beginning to wonder if Kaplan didn’t have the truth but Dom did? It would explain Kaplan’s seeming disregard that the suitcase contents could be dangerous, why Dom never says his daughter died (always lost or gone), and why Red tells Dom in Artax Network that he always had a reason to walk out the door (its easy to assume he meant Liz, but maybe he meant Katarina was still alive). I guess it could be reversed and Red didn’t want Dom to know she’s alive. But that would mean he is some sort of threat to Red if he learned the truth which is a whole different situation.

lara1 · 10/04/2017 9:24 am

Interesting thoughts Brittany. I wonder if Kaplan did not realize that revealing the suitcase would not only reveal the "truth" about why Red came into Liz's life, but unearth a huge danger...kind of like a Pandora's box. And it seems that Red being revealed as her father, complicates that somehow. In ways that Kaplan perhaps did not imagine. But I still don't know if Kaplan ever knew Red is Liz's father (if he is heh heh).

I think Dom knows a lot. That's why both Katarina and Red kept him a secret, IMO. Though Red wants Dom to contact Liz if Red doesn't come back. Red says to him "tell her who you are". So its puzzling what Dom could know that is dangerous if Red is still alive, but not if Red is not. Perhaps the danger is more to Red himself, than to Liz. If Red were gone, he can't protect Liz anyway, so Dom doesn't need to be kept a secret?

The suitcase is dangerous to Liz because its dangerous to Red?

On Red's comment to Dom, I never really figured out what he meant. I didn't think it was Liz, but Dom looked chastened and a bit sheepish when Red said it. I took it as referring to a former domestic situation, like maybe Dom walked out on his family at some point, because they'd just talked of "home" and Red seemed to say that with a bit of sarcasm or even bitterness. But who knows, that one is up for grabs! He could have just meant Liz.

Last edited by lara1 (10/04/2017 9:25 am)

10/21/2017 7:32 am

After considering the information from TBL Exposed listener about about CODIS (that whoever's DNA showed up would have had to have been alive at least in 1992 in order for it to be in the system), I've also been thinking about what Kaplan said to Red on the bridge "our secret at Tansi Farms"....not 'your secret" but "ours". That makes me think she was involved with whatever happened not just in the disposal of the body. Because she exposed 86 people he had killed, didn't talk about any shared responsibility, but put it all on him. We know Kate started working for him sometime after 1993 because there was that toe tag on the body Kate was working on in the morgue said it had died in February 1993. When she meets Red after Sam comes to her, he is already known as a traitor, so that makes me think it was sometime after 1994. Anyway, if Kate was involved in whatever happened with the person in the suitcase, it would make sense that they were still alive at least into the mid-1990s. So I don't think it has anything to do with the fire directly, since that happened in 1989. It could very well have been someone there that night, but they didn't die that night.

I've been reading Tumblr blogs (God help me) and have seen a wide range of theories from the body being the real Red (not a new theory) to being Katarina (which I think is what the writers want us to believe) to ballerina girl from Mako Tanida (and/or Jennifer Reddington, if that is who she is) all the way to the bones being the real Tom Keen and somehow this Tom Keen is an impostor. I can't quite figure out how that last one would work, unless Red lied to Tom (or had the wrong information) by telling him that he was the Hargraves son, but he isn't and so he's just Tom Keen/Jacob Phelps and not actually Christopher Hargrave.

lara1 · 10/21/2017 2:49 pm

Brittany - well one of my thoughts is that Tom is not Christopher Hargrave and Just part of Red’s game to get Tom from killing off Scottie. Whether or not Howard was in on it I don’t know. That whole set up with the fake “ adoptive parents” may have been a big clue. Then again maybe not.

Seems to me if the bones are a match to something in CODEIS then they can’t be Reddington as supposedly the gov never had DNA on Reddington. Then again Caul’s fingerprints and dna were not in any gov database.

Not to mention that in the Blacklist universe dna of corpses can be altered. Though I don’t think that’s the case here or why would Red be so worried? Unless it is altered and it’s just one big complicated mystery.

In short I now have no idea! Lol

10/26/2017 5:04 pm

Is it just me (or Red being Red) or does he not seem quite as worried about the suitcase as he did early on? Maybe the closer he and Liz have become since she discovered he is her father, the less concerned he has become about her leaving? I imagine he still doesn't want her to know because it would hurt her, but perhaps he isn't as worried about her leaving?

And Red doesn't understand why Nik would get killed because of the suitcase. Is it that he hasn't considered they could run a DNA test from it? Is it because he doesn't think the contents would mean anything to anyone besides himself and Liz?

Eastcoast · 10/28/2017 2:57 am

Brittany, I thought the same thing. He seamed puzzles why
Nik would be killed over it. He must think it is only important to him and Liz?

lara1 · 10/28/2017 10:08 am

It would be a wild twist if the bones turn out to be someone other than Red thinks they are. Or, that person had "another identity" or cover or something of which Red was not aware.

Or - the only other person with a vested interest Red thinks is dead. KR springs to mind. Will have to watch whether Red seems to suspect perhaps something deeper like that

10/28/2017 12:20 pm

As you know I’ve believed that people are supposed to believe it is KR in there but that it isn’t. One branch of that theory is that even Red may believe it is Katarina but it isn’t. I have left open the possibility that Kate could have helped her fake her death. Because while everyone is asking who the person in the suitcase is, maybe it is more important who ISN’T in there. If the person who had interest in the suitcase knew it was supposed to be KR but DNA showed differently (could be a missing person, someone already declared dead, etc) then they would know she isn’t dead or at least that she is possibly still alive.

lara1 wrote:
It would be a wild twist if the bones turn out to be someone other than Red thinks they are. Or, that person had "another identity" or cover or something of which Red was not aware.

Or - the only other person with a vested interest Red thinks is dead. KR springs to mind. Will have to watch whether Red seems to suspect perhaps something deeper like that

Eastcoast · 10/28/2017 1:12 pm

So whoes bones would change everyone's life forever?

Red and Kr are 2 good choices. But what if the real Liz is in there? Not sure HOW that would work? But it would change everything for everyone. Who is Liz would be the question. That would also possibly answer the 2 daughter question.
Or what if it's Kr and her DNA isn't a match to Liz?
Maybe that's what Kirk was talking about when he said he wouldn't hurt his own daughter.

My other weird thought is what if the real Mr. Kaplan is there? What if there were 2?
Either way, it has to be a later death because of the dates of when they were able to put DNA in the system.

lara1 · 10/28/2017 4:21 pm

Brittany - my thought is that the person with a vested interest in the suitcase is someone whom Red thought was dead ( not necessarily in the suitcase) and is not. Ie its KR who has the vested interest. Red isn’t aware and perplexed perhaps that others are interested in it because he thinks the only other person who would have such an interest is KR - she does not want the contents revealed perhaps - she’s alive but Red does not know that

I probably didn’t explain that thought well enough

The other really really out there idea is that it’s Kaplan after all. Not happy that the suitcase has yet to be delivered to Liz. She killed or caused to be killed everyone else! Is that why Dennison still remained loyal to her even in the face of Red’s wrath? She’s still around and pulling the strings? Lol

East coast - the thought that there may be 2 Kaplans has entered my mind too. But then why would she remember and speak 2 different things? Unless she’s remembering the Other Kaplan in Requiem. Something happened to that one perhaps ? Lol.